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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Ewave, Corn-wave, or Ecorn?

Here are some pics of the cabinets before I get started. These were listed on CL. The guy told me he was about to part them out. I asked and got the cabinets and woofers for 2 bennies. Maybe a little high, but it suits my project perfectly and saves me a ton of work.
Now to go install of the xover and tweeter.

Pics to follow as progress continues.
Mark
 

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Jcricket said:
Here are some pics of the cabinets before I get started. These were listed on CL. The guy told me he was about to part them out. I asked and got the cabinets and woofers for 2 bennies. Maybe a little high, but it suits my project perfectly and saves me a ton of work.
Now to go install of the xover and tweeter.

Pics to follow as progress continues.
Mark
Click to expand...

I think those will work quite nice.
 
I used that driver to impressive effect with the E'wave and a 5 cu ft box tuned to 40 hz.(JBL 4507 with all four ports open) Plus, while expensive JBL service centers can later convert it to 2235H which is fun also, with all the 15" caveats as well.

russellc
 
Jcricket said:
anybody ever ewave a set of cornwalls? I just picked up a set of cornwall cabinets with the 15" klipsch woofers in them. Grills are gone and cabs have had some minor cosmetic repairs done. I already have the entire ewave xover,horn,driver ready to go. If I am lucky, I'll get it installed tonight.

Can't wait!
Pics to follow.
Mark
Click to expand...

The Cornwall woofer is only used up to 600Hz. Not sure how high it will really go but, seriously doubt it is suitable for ecornowave. You could always drop a JBL 2225 or 2226 in there and then ecornowave.

You would likely have more re-sale value if you restore it to being an actual Cornwall, if eventual re-sale is a consideration.

If you want to just use the cabinet and sell the woofers, I would use the larger QSC waveguide and the woofer of your choice.
 
Dr. Beaker said:
The Cornwall woofer is only used up to 600Hz. Not sure how high it will really go but, seriously doubt it is suitable for ecornowave. You could always drop a JBL 2225 or 2226 in there and then ecornowave.

You would likely have more re-sale value if you restore it to being an actual Cornwall, if eventual re-sale is a consideration.

If you want to just use the cabinet and sell the woofers, I would use the larger QSC waveguide and the woofer of your choice.
Click to expand...

Dangit, I forgot that. Buggers!

These cabinets could be restored, but I think that would be a little too much for them. Rather, I think, I'll change the woofers or maybe put them into a three way design.
 
Altec 15 Clone: Questions

Folks, I'm thinking of building an Altec 15 clone Econowave. I've been modeling the Dayton Pro Pa-310 because I like the response at the 1600 Hz Ewave xo point.

Tuned to 31.9Hz, F3 28, F6 26, F10 24

I've attached some Woofer box curves. Any thoughts?

Thanks.
 

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Dr. Beaker said:
The Cornwall woofer is only used up to 600Hz. Not sure how high it will really go but, seriously doubt it is suitable for ecornowave.
Click to expand...

Definitely. If there was any weak link in the Cornwall, it was that the woofer really didn't behave itself above 600 Hz or so, due to the straight-sided cone. In the Cornwall, it wasn't much of an issue (since the woofer/mid crossover is near that point, so there's not much going on for the woofer in the problem region), but with an Ewave, having about a 1500 Hz effective crossover... that's another story. Not a good combo.

I'd be thinking something like the aforementioned JBL 15" woofers, or maybe something like an Eminence Delta/Deltalite 15" or something of that ilk... we KNOW those can be made to work great as Ewave foundations...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Russellc said:
Plus, while expensive JBL service centers can later convert it to 2235H which is fun also, with all the 15" caveats as well.

russellc
Click to expand...

Doesn't have to be expensive, if you're willing to use a non-JBL service center. There's an excellent aftermarket 2235H kit, that matches the performance of the original, to a very high degree of similarity. I've installed many of them...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
skywave-rider said:
Linking-in this info from Wayne Parham: A concise post about matching directivity between woofer and HF in response to some questions about modding my Heresys:
http://audioroundtable.com/forum/index.php?t=msg&&th=12564&goto=63125#msg_63125
Click to expand...

Its also an interesting read if you want to see the "good" thing about using larger 15 inch drivers, and how collapsing directivity in the upper bands is not necessarily a bad thing, and how 10 inch drivers ( and smaller) used in this fashion can hurt response by having too much directivity in these upper bands.

The problem is compounded in another way when smaller drivers are used, caused by the difference in efficiencies between the drivers, i.e., smaller drivers have less output,(typically anyway) (Wayne prefers mid woofs between 93 and 98 db)
and for reasons Wayne describes, dont match up as well with the compression drivers. He also covers how to use these less efficient drivers, one must compromise the bass to maintain good efficiency in the mid band.

All these problems can be overcome, as obviously they have been on this thread with all sorts of mid woofs being used. Its just an interesting take on larger sized midwoof and their advantages/disadvantages, and some of the disadvantages/advantages in the smaller ones.

Russellc
 
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GordonW said:
Doesn't have to be expensive, if you're willing to use a non-JBL service center. There's an excellent aftermarket 2235H kit, that matches the performance of the original, to a very high degree of similarity. I've installed many of them...

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

I've PM'd you about these kits, exciting news! Do these kits come with the mass ring?

Russellc
 
Russellc said:
Its also an interesting read if you want to see the "good" thing about using larger 15 inch drivers, and how collapsing directivity in the upper bands is not necessarily a bad thing, and how 10 inch drivers ( and smaller) used in this fashion can hurt response by having too much directivity in these upper bands.
Click to expand...

I'd add another tidbit to this- I'd recommend a read of Tomlinson Holman's treatises on why many of the original THX movie theater speakers used dual woofers. He's using the same "pattern narrowing" technique- only compounding it, by using two woofers STACKED, to cause the patter to narrow TWICE as fast in the vertical direction as the horizontal direction. This causes a reasonably "rectangular" pattern, which closely matches the patter of many horn drivers.

A pair of 10" or 12" drivers can work well for this, using an E-wave horn, by my calculations... they should have "closed down" to around 40-50 degrees vertical dispersion by no higher than 1.8KHz or so (lower for the dual 12s). Holman originally specified dual 15" woofers with a 500-800 Hz crossover point... there's no reason we can't use dual smaller woofers with the one-octave-higher crossover point of the Ewave...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Russellc said:
I've PM'd you about these kits, exciting news! Do these kits come with the mass ring?

Russellc
Click to expand...

As I PM'd... that's the one trick. If you want the mass ring, you have to make one. I've used strips of solder, weighing it to make sure it was around original mass (35 grams).

Or, for most Ewave applications... just use the kit "naked", and make a 2234- equivalent. For most of our purposes here with Ewaves, this may work better- the lighter cone mass can make for better midrange output and slightly higher efficiency...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
I'd add another tidbit to this- I'd recommend a read of Tomlinson Holman's treatises on why many of the original THX movie theater speakers used dual woofers. He's using the same "pattern narrowing" technique- only compounding it, by using two woofers STACKED, to cause the patter to narrow TWICE as fast in the vertical direction as the horizontal direction. This causes a reasonably "rectangular" pattern, which closely matches the patter of many horn drivers.

A pair of 10" or 12" drivers can work well for this, using an E-wave horn, by my calculations... they should have "closed down" to around 40-50 degrees vertical dispersion by no higher than 1.8KHz or so (lower for the dual 12s). Holman originally specified dual 15" woofers with a 500-800 Hz crossover point... there's no reason we can't use dual smaller woofers with the one-octave-higher crossover point of the Ewave...

Regards,
Gordon.
Click to expand...

Interesting! Now I see some of the inspiration for some of your "Super size E'waves" Very interesting indeed. This thread just never stops teaching, and much of the reason is guys like Gordon here contributing.:thmbsp:

Russellc
 
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