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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

with respect to woofers that could be paired with the econowave, the 123a seems to have a significant bump in frequency response around 50-70hz or so in a common form factor (3.5cuft/35hz ported) while the le14-a in the same enclosure is pretty much flat down to 40hz. the 2226h in the same starts rolling off around 150hz and is down about 8db by 40hz. these are all 2pi space predictions from winisd.

i can see why the 2226h in a *passive* configuration might not be preferred. however, in an *active* configuration where about +8db parametric eq were applied in order to bring the bass response up, would sound quality suffer in any way? or, put another way, would a 2226h with eq sound better, worse, or the same to the 123a or the le14-a assuming that the net frequency response was made identical?
 
with respect to woofers that could be paired with the econowave, the 123a seems to have a significant bump in frequency response around 50-70hz or so in a common form factor (3.5cuft/35hz ported) while the le14-a in the same enclosure is pretty much flat down to 40hz. the 2226h in the same starts rolling off around 150hz and is down about 8db by 40hz. these are all 2pi space predictions from winisd.

The bump in the bottom-end response of the 123A is counter-acted by the naturally somewhat rising response of the woofer on the top end. Winds up pretty near flat, if you measure them.

Of course, this requires a very LOW tuning frequency... as in 23-25 Hz or so. Basically, keep tuning them lower and lower until you make them maximally flat...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
A gentle rising response is usually nullified by typical reactive parts in a crossover. In fact, I find it's much easier to get a smooth flat transition from the mid to tweeter if the mid does rise gently. Interesting that the 123A has this. Do you have any FR graphs, I wouldn't mind taking a look at them.
 
I can see why the 2226h in a *passive* configuration might not be preferred. however, in an *active* configuration where about +8db parametric eq were applied in order to bring the bass response up, would sound quality suffer in any way? or, put another way, would a 2226h with eq sound better, worse, or the same to the 123a or the le14-a assuming that the net frequency response was made identical?
2226H can certainly handle the parametric augmentation, and I've seen designs using them "boosted" as subwoofers, even, but have never myself heard them in that alignment. It's not going to work in high SPL sound reinforcement unless with a bunch of them, and tube enthusiasts need not apply, of course.

Look also at 128H in that volume. Gordon has more experience with this driver than I do, and may be able to tell us more. And 2214H, also, as used, for example, in L100T(3); they're both subsequent generation "better" drivers than 123A.... :yes:
 
Hi All, I stopped by Kegger's today to listen to his KPM-100 econowaves. WOW do they would great. The bass is kick ass and clear as a bell....great detail and if needed will pin you to the couch. The mids highly detailed and lush with no hint that the sound is coming from a horn. The highs are crystal clear and even at high volumes did not rash my ears like 99% of all tweeters do. The refinished cabs look stunning as well. I am going to go with that same finish on my ESS EWGs...thanks Keg. Cheers.
 
Making a little headway. Baffles are mounted and E'waves are 'flushed in'. I'm going to smooth them over and paint them in gloss Colonial Red. They weigh in at about 100lbs each I would guess....

wave%20001.jpg
 
Awesome!

Hey,
Those LOOK great!,...Are they Steel, or Aluminum, Or?...Would like to know
more,....Mine have been on hold, recovering from 'medical' challenges, heh..
Keep us updated....:thmbsp: Cheers, T
 
Testimonial follows:

Yes, I think Kegger has new mains. More punch and substance than either the ADS L880 or Polk 10s he ran before. not that either sounded bad.. they sounded good to great, but these are on a different plateau.

I've tried to find ways to express it without offending: EconoWave is very much a different breed. For many of those building them, they've apparently been an illuminating experience.... :thmbsp:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2152940#post2152940
 
Thanks Zilch!

Here's where I'm at. The cabinets are made of 3/4" walled 12" PVC pipe. Baffles are cloth filled phenolic and MDF. Crossovers with 200watt 'quick adjust' L-pad... and my little wood/phenolic circle cutter:D

Hi,
Please explain "walled" pipe.
I know phenolic from antique radios and electronics, "Bakelite."
You can still buy this stuff?
How did you get the nice curve in the back, from connecting sections of pipe with resin or epoxy?

Sorry, I have stared at the pics but I can't see it.
:thmbsp:
 
A gentle rising response is usually nullified by typical reactive parts in a crossover. In fact, I find it's much easier to get a smooth flat transition from the mid to tweeter if the mid does rise gently. Interesting that the 123A has this. Do you have any FR graphs, I wouldn't mind taking a look at them.

Haven't gotten to measure one recently... but I remember George Augspurger mentioning this, somewhere. I've also noted it when just listening to one, open-baffle, without crossover... it's a little mid-loud...

Of course, in a box... it's almost the opposite. Until the tuning frequency is lowered enough, it can be bass-loud...

There is a happy medium in there... and IME, it's been around 3-4 cubic feet tuned low (below 26 Hz)...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
Hi,
Please explain "walled" pipe.
I know phenolic from antique radios and electronics, "Bakelite."
You can still buy this stuff?
How did you get the nice curve in the back, from connecting sections of pipe with resin or epoxy?

Sorry, I have stared at the pics but I can't see it.
:thmbsp:

Walled - the walls of the PVC pipe are 3/4 of an inch thick.

Yeah, phenolic.... I stumbled upon a 1/2 sheet some time ago (master scrounger here). It's a phenolic material made under high heat and pressure with cloth embedded in it. It is very stiff.strong, and dense. Although it is wicked tough to cut - the edges are sharp and clean. If you google it, yes you can still buy it for a princely sum:yes:

"from connecting sections of pipe with resin or epoxy?"

yes, epoxy and pocket screws:yes:

I hope it ends up worth all the effort:scratch2:
 
From the pic I did not realize that those are the round ones. Are you going to paint the wave guide as well? That might look nice in a hi gloss silver contrasting with the red. Are you useing a plasic primer before the paint or is the paint plastic-ready? Good job.
 
I hadn't considered painting the WGs. I invisioned messing with foam plugs, but thanks for the idea, I might just do that!

Getting the paint to stick good to the PVC is definitely a consideration. I was going to try some of the newer acrylic enamels, people seem to have been having good luck with that stuff and I think I've inhaled enough solvents in my life. Probably a dedicated plastic primer to start will be a good idea.

Thanks
 
I would use the plastic primer first. That is what we use when painting plastic parts. The best place to buy it is an auto paint store if you have one in your area.
 
We're working with Jacks's lowpass for LE14A plus the less than 95 dB highpass.... :yes:

Zilch,

I searched the thread but could not find Jack's lowpass for the LE14A, other than mention of two 100 ohm resistors across the speaker terminals. I'm curious what you used on the woofer as I have a pair of LE14A's.

Great looking speaker!
 
EV Update

After the honeymoon wore off from my new EWG's, I started to notice that the sound wasn't right. The highs and lows were great but something in the middle was off. I went ahead and added ports to the cabinets but that only made things worse. I was certain that I had the crossover correct and had correctly hooked up the JBL woofers with the positive lead going to the black terminal.

After an hour of staring at the things I realized I had mis-wired the L-pads. Correctly wired, it looks like they reverse the phase of the compression driver. I missed that part and hooked them up without the phase change.

Now they are really sounding great. I can't stop listening to them.

Next up is to finish the grill covers and play around with positioning.
 

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Now they are really sounding great. I can't stop listening to them.
I get the phase wrong 51% of the time, so it's SOP to measure it first thing. ;)

The ports look unusual up top there, but it sounds like they're working fine. You should have plenty big bass now. :yes:

I'm gonna post your pic over in the anthropomorphic thread.... :D
 
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