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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

OK, what about a mini econowave? The other day I bought a pair of American Monitor 8s. 8 inch woof and dome tweet in a VERY solid cabinet. They sound great for their size and have remarkable bass responce. They are too narrow for the econowave in this thread, so, is there a smaller version of the E'wave I can use and just cross higher?
 
Zilch said:
I've tried to find ways to express it without offending: EconoWave is very much a different breed. For many of those building them, they've apparently been an illuminating experience.... :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

The illuminating part for me is the lack of "horn" sound. They sound like a good titanium dome tweeter
but with nice efficiency and dynamics. Mate that to a box that has great bass, efficiency an dynamics
then you have a pretty darn nice speaker, which is what I have been contemplating building for a while
now, works really well with the tube amplification I run.
 
Thanks Z, I am in no hurry to build the mini Ewave, I was just looking at those AMs and wondering if they might work as a future project. I am finishing my ESS EWGs this week and hope to have them done by Friday night. If the replacement passive radiators are not here by then, I will just tape a piece of cardboard over the holes to minimize the excursion.
 
Kegger said:
The illuminating part for me is the lack of "horn" sound. They sound like a good titanium dome tweeter
but with nice efficiency and dynamics.
Click to expand...

Exactly. A properly designed waveguide has the GOOD aspects of titanium domes (very good extension, good resolution) but without the bad aspects (distortion at high dynamic levels, non-optimal off-axis response and such).

Not to mention the waveguide will go FAR LOWER than any dome tweeter, for the same high-frequency extension. Much better bandwidth. Again, better off-axis response, since the woofer does not have to cover as much of the mid/high frequency range.

And it's not just the flare/horn/waveguide that's gotta be good, though. Got a very illuminating experience recently, comparing horn drivers- the better modern drivers, as a class, seem to be MUCH FLATTER in response than many older drivers. Not just high-frequency extension, either- there's remarkable differences in response deviations (peaks, dips) through out the usable frequency range, in many cases...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
And it's not just the flare/horn/waveguide that's gotta be good, though. Got a very illuminating experience recently, comparing horn drivers- the better modern drivers, as a class, seem to be MUCH FLATTER in response than many older drivers. Not just high-frequency extension, either- there's remarkable differences in response deviations (peaks, dips) through out the usable frequency range, in many cases....
Click to expand...
Including many "Holy Grail" vintage drivers.

Do they have anything else going for them, like exceptional midrange performance?

Nope, only their value for resale to cult purists and their dupes.... ;)
 
People who grew up with the sound they produced and lived with it as their reference for thirty, forty, or fifty years would likely find modern more accurate speakers to be dull and thoroughly unenjoyable compared to their reference. There is nothing wrong with liking and seeking the vintage sound. But, IMO, it isn't particularly desirable for new enthusiasts whether young or old to go out seeking inferior performance when that sound wasn't something they are attached to in the first place.

There will be some converts from the Altec sound, for isntance, but probably not a particularly high percentage and more than likely a very distinct minority of long term altec owners will be happy with the results.
 
dnewma04 said:
There is nothing wrong with liking and seeking the vintage sound. But, IMO, it isn't particularly desirable for new enthusiasts whether young or old to go out seeking inferior performance when that sound wasn't something they are attached to in the first place.
Click to expand...
Agreed, Dave. My major problem arises from pretending vintage sound is something other or more than what it is, and ignoring or even willfully obscuring the facts relating to that perception in the interest of sustaining it, not to mention bashing the messenger(s) and belittling their resources.

Also, it's not just about what one likes; it's not terribly difficult to find an element of economic motivation in specific instances.

Wandering a bit off topic here, but it does go to what E'Wave is, and why it's different. There's certainly not much comparable available on the market, either; we almost HAVE to build it ourselves.... :yes:
 
Without rereading this entire post how low will this setup go? I have some KEF B-139 oval woofers i have been wanting to use in something and have some cabs. Here are the specs of the 139. Would this be good or not the right drivers for the bottom / mid...

B139 SP1044 (B version seems to have very sililar parameters)
From KEF spec sheet
Nom Impedance 8 ohms
Freq range 25-500Hz
Sensitiviy 87db
Total flux 1.1mWb
R(E) 7.2
R(e) 4.87
L(E) 1.04mH
L(e) 0.97
Sd 349 sq cm
Xmax 6mm pk-pk (B=7p-p)
X(limit) 12mm pk-pk
Moving Mass 43.5g (B=54g)
R(MS) 1.43 mech ohm
C(MS) 7.43x10e-4m/N
V(AS) 127 litresBl 12.5N?A
F(s) 25 Hz +/- 5Hz
Qm 6
Qe 0.39
Qt ).37
Closed box vol 30-60l
Reflex box vol 60-140 l
Power handling program 100w.

Thanks for any help.

K
 
Play mighty low, but you're not going to put more than 20 Watts into them without running out of excursion. That'll get you 103+ dB in 2.7 cuft., though. Do it. :yes:

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Black is closed box, 0.9 cuft..

Red is vented, 2.7 cuft., 25 Hz. 2 x 2" @ 7.75" or 1 x 3" @ 8.36"

Green is vented, 4.8 cuft, 22 Hz.
 

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Zilch said:
Play mighty low, but you're not going to put more than 20 Watts into them:

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Click to expand...
Plus you'd need a midrange as well. They don't sound great there and almost all versions of the B139 have a big resonance around the 1k ish region that needs a lot of EQing.
 
Also pretty low sensitivity (kinda like me) for this gig. At 87dB@1W1m you'll be strangling the EWG unless you're going with multiples.

Ray
 
Brett said:
Plus you'd need a midrange as well. They don't sound great there and almost all versions of the B139 have a big resonance around the 1k ish region that needs a lot of EQing.
Click to expand...
E'Wave rolls it off ~1.2 kHz.

Maybe they sound like snot up there, but I wouldn't write it off without tryin'.... :dunno:
 
Zilch said:
E'Wave rolls it off ~1.2 kHz.

Maybe they sound like snot up there, but I wouldn't write it off without tryin'.... :dunno:
Click to expand...
I've used them before and they're awful midranges. I wasn't commenting on whether they'd work with the EWG, more on the fact that the B139 really is a dedicated sub driver and the resonance would take a lot of work to remove passively and even actively as it has a long trailing edge in the time domain and would be audible even with the EQ.

Add a nice mid like the 8NMB420 or 2123 and it'd be quite decent within the limitations of the LF as you pointed out earlier.

The best implementation of this driver I've ever heard was a full flat earth Linn Isobarik active DMS (I owned passives) system.
 
Well, my LE14A's should arrive tomorrow.
I'm looking at a 4.2 ft3 box tuned to 34 Hz as the plot I like most in WinISD and should be able to build a prototype easily from single sheet of MDF. It looks to be a bit deeper than the 3.5 tuned to 30 and a bit flatter overall with a bump near 40.
 
has anybody used this horn from rcf?

http://www.profirepra.cz/mereni/zvukovody/zvuk1/RCF HF101 + DE25.pdf

it is a 70x90, so not as good at controlling floor and ceiling reflections as the econowave, but the off-axis (horizontal) looks pretty darn nice (see page 2 of the file). :scratch2:

HF101 Horn

actually, the off-axis appears quite similar to this one but without the on-axis suckout. :finger:

looks like there are some suppliers selling it for around $40-50, so it can't compete with econowave on price either, but it is aluminum construction if that matters to folks.
 
Publius, that second link is bad news. I got 14 macaffee alerts of that site trying to download trojans before I could knock it down.
 
Hi All, I want to bi-amp my ESS EWGs. So I am going to make seperate inputs on the EWG crossovers for each amp. Will this work? Do I need the L-pad as part of the curcuit.....I have volume pots on both amps so I don't need it on the crossover. I will drive the woofs with my Adcom GCA-510 and the waves with my 6SN7/26/300B amp.
 
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