dnewma04
The Healer
You just need to seperate the grounds so they aren't common between the two speakers, simple as that. The l-pad can be removed.
Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
- Start date
You just need to seperate the grounds so they aren't common between the two speakers, simple as that. The l-pad can be removed.
In the search for "mini-econowave"... anyone tried the B&C ME10?
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=294-618
I've actually got a DE10 horn driver (recommended match), sitting here on the shelf...
I'm thinking that might be a killer contender for a dual-7"-woofer "slim tower" E-wave variation... or, for maybe a sideways-MTM variation for a center channel...
Regards,
Gordon.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=294-618
I've actually got a DE10 horn driver (recommended match), sitting here on the shelf...
I'm thinking that might be a killer contender for a dual-7"-woofer "slim tower" E-wave variation... or, for maybe a sideways-MTM variation for a center channel...
Regards,
Gordon.
Hi, Publius. You're not supposed to listen on-axis, silly person.
:There are 1000 horns/waveguides of varying designs out there, of course, and they each behave differently in detail, not only in and of themselves, but also in combination with different drivers.
Jack and I had both worked with the JBL PT waveguide and liked what it did and how it sounds. For this project, it seems to have been a good choice, as many other AKers have made successful systems using it now, with minimal investment.
No doubt, there are better combinations available, and this thread might serve as guidance for how to work with them; the knowledge base relating to what it's about and how to do it is continuously expanding here.
Ultimately, as in all matters audio, we will each have our personal preferences. Our purpose here is to afford everyone opportunity to explore this unique approach to speaker building.
The adventure doesn't necessarily end with EconoWave, but it's certainly a worthy beginning.... :thmbsp:
"The adventure doesn't necessarily end with EconoWave, but it's certainly a worthy beginning.... "
I'll second that. Using the stock ESS AMT 1C crossover my E'waves sound fantastic. I have started the crossovers three times this week but keep getting interupted by work....that sucks.
I'll second that. Using the stock ESS AMT 1C crossover my E'waves sound fantastic. I have started the crossovers three times this week but keep getting interupted by work....that sucks.
Hi, Gordon.
You've clearly highlighted the advantages of the E'Wave approach over conventional tweeter designs in building modern systems and upgrading vintage ones: low frequency, superb dynamics and clarity, constant directivity, uniform power response.
I've got a poopot of small horns and waveguides to work with here, from EV, PE, Eminence, and others. They're not going to get down as low as the larger ones, of course.
For KLH 17, I'm using this $35 18-Sound offering, and will be reporting on it in another thread:
http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=262
I incorporated this elliptical waveguide (also available separately) with a different driver in an AR4x upgrade with quite pleasing results.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1534352#post1534352
We're certainly looking forward to initial results using the new JBL "Mini" PT Waveguides, as well.... :yes:
I'm assuming you can get a little better high-end extension, using a different horn driver (metal diaphragm) than the mylar-diaphragm driver that comes stock on that horn, as configured per that link above? That's my only real concern- the apparent roll-off above about 16KHz...
Otherwise, looks like really good behavior!
Regards,
Gordon.
CLIO will tell the story, once it's mounted in the box.
If it sounds as smooth as the BMS Mylars, I'm willing to give up a bit of VHF extension to enjoy that benefit.... :yes:
Next day, typically, if they're in stock, which they mostly are.
There were some delays last month when JBL Pro changed over their inventory system....
Well, the Lansalloys are pretty hard, but not cracked.
I emailed Rick on one of his kits and he came back that it would work if the surrounds were on the back of the cones. Well, mine are on the fronts, so I have to get back to him.
I'll probably go the brake fluid route after I build the cabs to see how that works, but new surrounds are certainly on the table.
I emailed Rick on one of his kits and he came back that it would work if the surrounds were on the back of the cones. Well, mine are on the fronts, so I have to get back to him.
I'll probably go the brake fluid route after I build the cabs to see how that works, but new surrounds are certainly on the table.
jackgiff
Well-Known Member
Rick Cobb is one of my heroes. When I did my first pair of LE14A's, he told me all the same things he is telling you. I said let's just go for it. All of the A's had their surrounds glued to the front of the cone, and Rick's surrounds worked great for gluing to the front. The last pair I did had the Lansalloy glued to the fronts, but I decided to glue the new surrounds to the back, just for giggles. Didn't make any difference, they still worked great. Rick's 30 HZ CD is a great way to simplify doing surrounds. I highly recommend Rick's surrounds.
dnewma04
The Healer
If you listen on axis, you are probably getting early reflections. JBL (with the Everest) and Geddes both promote off axis positioning with constant directivity. 
The null on axis with the Summas is inconsequential if you set up the speakers as intended. Claiming it's a problem is like complaining that your tweeter has some peaky behavior when playing bass.
The null on axis with the Summas is inconsequential if you set up the speakers as intended. Claiming it's a problem is like complaining that your tweeter has some peaky behavior when playing bass.
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
If you listen on axis, you are probably getting early reflections. JBL (with the Everest) and Geddes both promote off axis positioning with constant directivity.
Dave, would you kindly elaborate on how listening off axis eliminates early reflections? Not getting what you mean.
dnewma04
The Healer
Sure. The idea is that you want to minimize early reflections from the same side of the room as the speaker. In other words, you don't want first reflections from the right speaker from the right wall arriving at your right ear, first. His studies have shown that our hearing is sensitive to this and early reflections, in general. His talk of reducing HOMs also addresses this as he tries to reduces early reflections within the horn itself.
When designing the Summas, the intent was to control dispersion and toe in the speakers significantly enough that the side walls were use to reflect primarily sound from the opposite speaker. So, instead of the right speaker reflecting off the right wall to the right ear, it is aimed towards the left wall so that the direct sound from the left speaker and the reflected sound from the right speaker are both arriving at the left ear first and vice versa. Luckily, when matching up the woofers directivity with the waveguides and selecting the right horn dispersion and crossover point, we aren't giving up anything by listening off axis and we are getting the benefit of minimizing early reflections and the FR havoc they cause (think comb filtering type effects) and creating a sense of space/ambience by embracing the non-objectionable reflections. This way, we are more actively removing the bad portions of room acoustics without making our rooms into an unbearable sounding quasi-anechoic environment that people who resort to passive room damping options inevitably suffer from.
When designing the Summas, the intent was to control dispersion and toe in the speakers significantly enough that the side walls were use to reflect primarily sound from the opposite speaker. So, instead of the right speaker reflecting off the right wall to the right ear, it is aimed towards the left wall so that the direct sound from the left speaker and the reflected sound from the right speaker are both arriving at the left ear first and vice versa. Luckily, when matching up the woofers directivity with the waveguides and selecting the right horn dispersion and crossover point, we aren't giving up anything by listening off axis and we are getting the benefit of minimizing early reflections and the FR havoc they cause (think comb filtering type effects) and creating a sense of space/ambience by embracing the non-objectionable reflections. This way, we are more actively removing the bad portions of room acoustics without making our rooms into an unbearable sounding quasi-anechoic environment that people who resort to passive room damping options inevitably suffer from.