Favorite Bourbon

[whoaru99]

It's definitely being produced on an industrial scale. Small batch it is not. Which lends credibility to what I've been told by a couple of people in the industry.
I think people would be shocked if they knew where the plethora of brands on the market these days actually come from and how they came to be.

It doesn't stay much of a big secret in bourbon which is MGP or other. I have no reason to believe it would (perhaps more like could) remain such a big secret in the case of Tito's.

 

[tarior]

It doesn't stay much of a big secret in bourbon which is MGP or other. I have no reason to believe it would (perhaps more like could) remain such a big secret in the case of Tito's.

If they put it through their stills, it becomes "their" own, even if they don't mash and ferment it on site. Many gin producers do the same thing. It's just business.

 

[whoaru99]

If they put it through their stills, it becomes "their" own, even if they don't mash and ferment it on site. Many gin producers do the same thing. It's just business.

Sure, but there is nothing but rumor that's the case in this case. It's liquor, not the SR-71, I have doubts such a secret would be still on after what, 20 years?

 

[tarior]

Sure, but there is nothing but rumor that's the case in this case. It's liquor, not the SR-71, I have doubts such a secret would be still on after what, 20 years?

Gotta keep up the mystique.

 

[whoaru99]

Gotta keep up the mystique.

Maybe someone who knows for sure, will be along. But, if it's that big of a secret, how will we know the expert is actually an expert.

 

[allmanbros]

You mean 1984.

Yes I did!

 

[whoaru99]

Gotta keep up the mystique.

I have subsequently found they're apparently pretty secretive of their Austin processes for visitors/tours, with assertions there may not be onsite fermentation. That would lend some plausibility they're getting at least some NGS from outside source(s).

 

[allmanbros]

That's not what I've heard from some industry insiders, people in the distilling business.

I have never heard this, but I will say that there is a tendency for industry insiders, aka competitors, to be notorious for discrediting brands that are eating their lunch in the marketplace...Titos was born from one man who maxxed out his credit cards to make product and sold it out of his car with no big aspirations, yet his brand has risen to kick the likes of big conglomerate Smirnoff, Absolut, Stoli, Ketel, and all other vodkas to the curb, and it ain't even a competition anymore...these big boys don't like seeing their sales drop so dramatically and their only recourse is to try to discredit the brand...not saying that is the case here, but have seen many competitors salespeople spend their entire sales call window telling the buyer that Titos is fake, not made in Texas, a made-up story, all the while the receiving clerk in the store was rolling off another 100 cases of Titos to the store...there were many lawsuits drummed up by PAID litigants in attempts to discredit Titos and guess what?...the more lawsuits the more sales Titos garnered...Their were numerous ATF investigations into Titos, and NOTHING was ever found to be mis-leading...your point about MGP and ADM is very true though... vodkas begin as grain neutral spirits shipped from one of these places (Plant City, Fla. in particular) to a distillery located elsewhere where it is distilled any number of times, bottled, packaged, then shipped to the market...this is common practice for many vodka producers because they find it much cheaper to buy grain neutral spirits than to invest in the equipment and overhead to make it themselves...it is a stretch to put "Handmade" on the label, but again the ATF did not make them take it off...Smirnoff has done everything possible to make their vodka sound like and look like it is Russian but nope, made right here in the good ole USA...at the end of the day the consumer decides on whether or not a brand is successful or not and Titos struck a cord with vodka drinkers...a testament to it's strength is that the spirits industry categorically is down about 6%, yet Titos is growing at about 6%...that means it is still gnawing on the competition, but more importantly it is a growing GLOBAL brand.

 

[allmanbros]

Vodkas are an interesting aside. I usually buy either Stoli, Tito’s, Absolut, or Finlandia (underrated), depending on what’s on sale. I went through a Grey Goose phase early on, until they priced themselves into the stratosphere, and I began not to prefer its buttery texture; and, for awhile, I convinced myself that I preferred Smirnoff, until I realized it was fine for mixing but its texture was too hard for martinis.

But I think I first had Tito’s in 2013, when I was doing business in Texas and he was a prominent sponsor. His was the only vodka offered at every function I attended throughout Texas—Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin—that week. Eventually, I was at a dinner that included Tito, and we got to talking. I told him I enjoyed his vodka, even though it was new to me, and offered to get him one at the bar. He declined, saying that he didn’t drink.

It would not surprise me that Titos gave away more vodka than they sold in the first few years...anytime there was a function to expose people to Titos, we had carte blanche to use as much as necessary and send Titos the bill...also Tito, last name Beveridge, is an avid music fan and dog lover, of which one or both resonate to just about every American...no wonder his early marketing focused on those two things!

 

[tarior]

I have never heard this, but I will say that there is a tendency for industry insiders, aka competitors, to be notorious for discrediting brands that are eating their lunch in the marketplace...Titos was born from one man who maxxed out his credit cards to make product and sold it out of his car with no big aspirations, yet his brand has risen to kick the likes of big conglomerate Smirnoff, Absolut, Stoli, Ketel, and all other vodkas to the curb, and it ain't even a competition anymore...these big boys don't like seeing their sales drop so dramatically and their only recourse is to try to discredit the brand...not saying that is the case here, but have seen many competitors salespeople spend their entire sales call window telling the buyer that Titos is fake, not made in Texas, a made-up story, all the while the receiving clerk in the store was rolling off another 100 cases of Titos to the store...there were many lawsuits drummed up by PAID litigants in attempts to discredit Titos and guess what?...the more lawsuits the more sales Titos garnered...Their were numerous ATF investigations into Titos, and NOTHING was ever found to be mis-leading...your point about MGP and ADM is very true though... vodkas begin as grain neutral spirits shipped from one of these places (Plant City, Fla. in particular) to a distillery located elsewhere where it is distilled any number of times, bottled, packaged, then shipped to the market...this is common practice for many vodka producers because they find it much cheaper to buy grain neutral spirits than to invest in the equipment and overhead to make it themselves...it is a stretch to put "Handmade" on the label, but again the ATF did not make them take it off...Smirnoff has done everything possible to make their vodka sound like and look like it is Russian but nope, made right here in the good ole USA...at the end of the day the consumer decides on whether or not a brand is successful or not and Titos struck a cord with vodka drinkers...a testament to it's strength is that the spirits industry categorically is down about 6%, yet Titos is growing at about 6%...that means it is still gnawing on the competition, but more importantly it is a growing GLOBAL brand.

My primary source for this info came from a craft distiller, with whom I was a friendly acquaintance, in the PNW who was selling a vodka in his shop. I commented to him that it was pretty good, but very unlike his other products (which were good). He was like "oh, I don't make that one" "I buy it from the same outfit that makes it for Tito's. Only I don't run it through my stills. I just proof it and bottle it as is because it's really good and I can sell it at a pretty reasonable price."

 

[allmanbros]

My primary source for this info came from a craft distiller, with whom I was a friendly acquaintance, in the PNW who was selling a vodka in his shop. I commented to him that it was pretty good, but very unlike his other products (which were good). He was like "oh, I don't make that one" "I buy it from the same outfit that makes it for Tito's. Only I don't run it through my stills. I just proof it and bottle it as is because it's really good and I can sell it at a pretty reasonable price."

Certainly a small craft distiller is not a Titos threat, although that is what Titos started out as...as you said earlier, the wording on a Titos label leaves enough wiggle room so as to avoid ATF angst which also means it gives Titos some wiggle room in the production process...buying GNS on the open market and either reselling it as vodka as your friend did, or distilling/filtering it several times again is common in making finished vodka...and in fact sometimes a distiller will do both...The sheer volume done by Titos says they either have a HUGE distilling plant in Austin running 24-7, which would be no secret, or they buy GNS in huge volume, ship it to Austin for secondary distilling, bottling, and labelling, or both...in this scenario they are technically not a distiller, but a rectifier, someone who buys distilled spirits in bulk then re-distills it, or chill filters it, or something to make it their "own" product...there isn't much if anything proprietary to the production of vodka in any specific location...some will claim their water or wheat or potatoes are unique and they certainly can be but their influence on the finished product is debatable...perhaps a comparable scenario is that Mercedes Benz has a huge assembly plant in Tuscaloosa, Alabama where they get parts globally and assemble the finished cars...is this an American made or German made car?...Mercedes will certainly tell you it is German.

 

[Bushikan]

…perhaps a comparable scenario is that Mercedes Benz has a huge assembly plant in Tuscaloosa, Alabama where they get parts globally and assemble the finished cars...is this an American made or German made car?...Mercedes will certainly tell you it is German.

I think the key here is that a Mercedes is a German-engineered car. It matters less who assembles them or where than who designs them. As my friend, a car critic, told me: “No one over-engineers cars as well as the Germans.”

 

[tarior]

Certainly a small craft distiller is not a Titos threat, although that is what Titos started out as...as you said earlier, the wording on a Titos label leaves enough wiggle room so as to avoid ATF angst which also means it gives Titos some wiggle room in the production process...buying GNS on the open market and either reselling it as vodka as your friend did, or distilling/filtering it several times again is common in making finished vodka...and in fact sometimes a distiller will do both...The sheer volume done by Titos says they either have a HUGE distilling plant in Austin running 24-7, which would be no secret, or they buy GNS in huge volume, ship it to Austin for secondary distilling, bottling, and labelling, or both...in this scenario they are technically not a distiller, but a rectifier, someone who buys distilled spirits in bulk then re-distills it, or chill filters it, or something to make it their "own" product...there isn't much if anything proprietary to the production of vodka in any specific location...some will claim their water or wheat or potatoes are unique and they certainly can be but their influence on the finished product is debatable...perhaps a comparable scenario is that Mercedes Benz has a huge assembly plant in Tuscaloosa, Alabama where they get parts globally and assemble the finished cars...is this an American made or German made car?...Mercedes will certainly tell you it is German.

Really, buying GNS and reprocessing it makes sense, especially at the level Tito's has reached. It allows for excellent consistency and a very high QC level.
Here's Chuck Cowdery's take:

The Truth About Tito's and All Vodka

As reported this week in Ad Age and many other places, Tito's vodka is now the top-selling distilled spirits brand in the United States...

chuckcowdery.blogspot.com

My apologies for his politicking at the end. Stay in your lane, Chuck.
Source of feedstock questions aside, I have to say that what Beverige has with the brand is nothing short of amazing. Going from basically a hobbyist to the biggest selling vodka in the US in something like 20 years is incredible.
Hats off to him. I don't begrudge him a single nickel.

 

[Bushikan]

RE: Tito’s, I very much like it, but I’m no expert. But my friend, who used to own several liquor stores and collects very expensive and exotic wines (his preferred drink), thinks it’s the best vodka he’s tried. He claims to have tried them all. Tito must be doing something right.

 

[tarior]

RE: Tito’s, I very much like it, but I’m no expert. But my friend, who used to own several liquor stores and collects very expensive and exotic wines (his preferred drink), thinks it’s the best vodka he’s tried. He claims to have tried them all. Tito must be doing something right.

It's certainly popular, and I've known quite a few people for whom it is their go-to.

 

[allmanbros]

It's certainly popular, and I've known quite a few people for whom it is their go-to.

Quite honestly the only vodkas that I can say with any conviction that has stood out to me flavor wise in a superior way were Ketel One and Ketel Limon...To me they have the cleanest crispest flavor of all and I think their water source is key...the only vodka that made me cringe upon tasting was Grey Goose, to me it had an odd sort of oily taste, but hey others certainly do like it...I keep Titos at home since I had a relationship with them and watched it go fro 0 to 100 in no time...I also keep Wheatley Vodka, made by Harlan Wheatley who is the master distiller at Buffalo Trace...it's reasonable, nice packaging, and it is made in small batches (for now)...Harlan would not put his name on something he felt inferior, and that is good enough for me.

 

[tarior]

Quite honestly the only vodkas that I can say with any conviction that has stood out to me flavor wise in a superior way were Ketel One and Ketel Limon...To me they have the cleanest crispest flavor of all and I think their water source is key...the only vodka that made me cringe upon tasting was Grey Goose, to me it had an odd sort of oily taste, but hey others certainly do like it...I keep Titos at home since I had a relationship with them and watched it go fro 0 to 100 in no time...I also keep Wheatley Vodka, made by Harlan Wheatley who is the master distiller at Buffalo Trace...it's reasonable, nice packaging, and it is made in small batches (for now)...Harlan would not put his name on something he felt inferior, and that is good enough for me.

Since I don't really drink mixed drinks, I'm not much of a vodka buyer. I keep some on hand for when the wife wants something that uses it.
That said, probably the best vodka I've had was the stuff my friend was selling in his tasting room. It was really clean, didn't have that rubbing alcohol undertone. I do like gin, and I'm sure that many of my favorites start with MGP/ADM neutral spirit and go from there.

 

[GChief]

This is a hidden gem in the Heaven Hill bourbon stable IMO...the taste profile is on the softer side as the standard HH bourbon mash bill is 78% corn, 10% rye, and 12% malted barley...even though the rye content is low, there is enough there to give just enough spiciness to offset the sweetness of the corn...1783 is not new although it has undergone some changes over the years, the main one being it is no longer ten years old...1783 is the year in which Evan Williams whiskey was first distilled...it is readily obtainable, and a 750ml bottle retails in the $18-$20 range...it is labelled as small batch and HH claims the blend comes from less than 200 selected barrels...worth a shot if a softer, low burn, sipping bourbon is your preference.
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Picked some up, to sweet for this dude, it will be my visitors Burbon.

 

[audiotemp]

No more vodka posts...BORING!

Take it to a vodka thread?

 

[allmanbros]

Picked some up, to sweet for this dude, it will be my visitors Burbon.

I like the softer sweeter bourbons so a low rye content or even better a wheated bourbon is my preference...sounds like more spice, less corn is your preference so maybe Old Grandad 114, Barton 1792, Old Taylor might fit your bill, or if high rye hot is your preference go Four Roses...you can search bourbon mash bills, most brands can be found and you can pick out a mash bill that would like appeal to your preferences...however the Buffalo Trace Mash bills are a secret, but so-called experts have narrowed them down somewhat...generally more corn= sweeter, more rye =spicier,.more wheat=softer....all of these grains can be altered by final age and proof also.