I see you're in Tennessee. If you ever get out to Pembroke, KY, check out MB Roland.
Fabulous, unfiltered, uncut, super tasty, habit forming (for taste!) bourbon. IMO.
Favorite Bourbon
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Fabulous, unfiltered, uncut, super tasty, habit forming (for taste!) bourbon. IMO.
I’m very impressed with your bourbon knowledge. Would love to sip a few with you. I know virtually nothing. Old Scout, a small distillery in West Virginia—though not Kentucky—is among my favorites. I’ve spent a lot of time there and purchased a lot of their bourbons and ryes. Yes, it’s a little spicy and robust. But very smooth. Give it a sip.
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allmanbros
Well-Known Member
I make no claim to know it all, but was fortunate to be in the wholesale business for 42 years in several different capacities from tow motor operator to merchandising, to wine sales, to spirit sales, to sales manager to finally company VP...we had a very strong bourbon book with brands from Ancient Age Distilling, Heaven Hill, and Schenley...Ancient Age evolved into Buffalo Trace and through some very insightful leadership has become what most consider the premier bourbon distiller in the world...Heaven Hill is still a major player, while Schenley was bought out by what is today London-based Diageo...about the only brand remaining from Schenley today is Dickel, the rest are relics long discontinued...when Ancient Age turned into Buffalo Trace and came out with BT bourbon in 1999 it was apparent they were placing their chips all in on a resurgence of bourbon in a vodka dominated spirits industry...they were right...bourbon has a long fascinating history dating back to the late 1780s and I decided to learn all I could about it so I could give our salespeople an advantage in the marketplace...it got to the point where I was asked to do bourbon seminars/tastings for various groups, even auction items for fund raisers... of course being in a business relationship with these distillers gave me inside access to their operations, their plans, and more important access to folks whose families had spent their entire lives in the bourbon business...I retired in 2018 so I no longer have the contacts, frankly many of them have also retired, but still enjoy a good bourbon conversation.
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allmanbros
Well-Known Member
Not familiar with it, but certainly will check it out...uncut and unfiltered usually means something interesting...thanks for the tip!
It's not for everybody. Their products are bold and very flavor forward. They might be my favorite.
I had read somewhere that for a long time bourbon was considered over—something only Southern guys your grandfather’s age sipped in overstuffed chairs while overseeing their plantations and chewing on expensive cigars. Supposedly, the resurgence of bourbon (and cigars) happened around the vodka-infused Sex and the City days, as a backlash against fruity cocktails like the Cosmopolitan, perhaps because of shows like Boston Legal and others (and movies, too), in which the protagonists were ending the day not with vodka martinis or beer but with a good Kentucky bourbon and a cigar. No plantation required.
allmanbros
Well-Known Member
You are spot on, except I will add that that back in the day there was a lot of bourbon consumed with a long pull off the bottle followed by a "chaser" of choice (usually Coke or 7-UP) by people that weren't "plantation" level!...vodka became the spirit of choice in the 60's-70's because it was inexpensive, it was mixable with practically anything, and folks had the idea it wasn't detectable on the breath...distillers loved it because it was cheap to make and it was in the still today and on the store shelf tomorrow...the only problem with vodka was that most suppliers had at least one, some two or three in their portfolios, and the profit margins at retail were very thin due to heavy competition until the arrival of "super premium" Absolut from Sweden and Stoli from Latvia, which significantly upped the profits for everyone...it is ironic that today the #1 selling spirit brand is Titos, a mid-priced vodka made in Austin, Texas with a home-made look started by a guy selling it out of the trunk of his car in rural Texas...as good a brand for us as Absolut was, Titos is a phenomenon that I doubt will ever be repeated again, a fascinating story in itself...even as bourbon was on the decline in the mid-60's, many credit the arrival of Blantons Single Barrel in 1964 as keeping bourbon somewhat relevant...it was a "new" expression in a tired category and along with PVW becoming what it is these set the stage for the resurgence of bourbon in the mi-2000's...and as you stated very prominent in the exposure of bourbon to a new category of drinkers was the TV shows you mentioned plus It's A Mad Mad World...the spirits business is truly a what goes around come around business, the trick is to figure out when it's coming vs going!
Vodkas are an interesting aside. I usually buy either Stoli, Tito’s, Absolut, or Finlandia (underrated), depending on what’s on sale. I went through a Grey Goose phase early on, until they priced themselves into the stratosphere, and I began not to prefer its buttery texture; and, for awhile, I convinced myself that I preferred Smirnoff, until I realized it was fine for mixing but its texture was too hard for martinis.
But I think I first had Tito’s in 2013, when I was doing business in Texas and he was a prominent sponsor. His was the only vodka offered at every function I attended throughout Texas—Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Austin—that week. Eventually, I was at a dinner that included Tito, and we got to talking. I told him I enjoyed his vodka, even though it was new to me, and offered to get him one at the bar. He declined, saying that he didn’t drink.
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Doesn't Tito's begin life as a MGP or ADM product that gets re-distilled to produce the final product?
That's not what I've heard from some industry insiders, people in the distilling business.
audiotemp
Super Member
You mean 1984.
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whoaru99
Epic Member
I'd presume they'd be open for some sort of action if true, as that would be a blatant contradiction to what they ("Tito's") put in print.
Marketing wank is marketing wank. I'm sure there is plenty of weasel room in the wording to keep them out of trouble.
whoaru99
Epic Member
If they are redistilling another product, there is nothing actionable about that. If they are directly bottling an MGP, then, yeah, there might be some false advertising.
I like how they call the company 'Fifth Generation' to give gravitas to a 20 year old company.
whoaru99
Epic Member
Nothing I've ever seen suggests that. There has been some controversy about their "Handmade" though, with some taking issue that their batch size is a stretch on handmade.
WIKIPEDIA:
“Marketing its brand as Tito's Handmade Vodka, the company originally craft-distilled its products in copper pot stills at Texas' first legal distillery.[5][4][2] By 2001, the brand was no longer a micro-distillery, having surpassed the industry standard of 40,000 cases for a craft distillery as defined by the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States(DISCUS).
Now made in a facility with ten floor-to-ceiling stills and equipment bottling 500 cases an hour,[6] the brand recorded a sales volume of approximately 3.8 million 9-liter cases in the United States as of 2016[7] and a market share of 7.1% of the United States Vodka market as of 2017.[8]
In 2014, two false advertising lawsuits were filed against Tito's in California and Florida. The California lawsuit alleged that Tito's vodka cannot be described as "handmade" because it is distilled in a large industrial complex with modern, technologically advanced stills; and is produced and bottled in extremely large quantities. Since the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, which regulates labeling of liquor in the US, does not actually define "handmade," both lawsuits rely on the dictionary definition of the word.[16][17] By 2016, the lawsuits had either been settled out of court or dismissed.”
“Marketing its brand as Tito's Handmade Vodka, the company originally craft-distilled its products in copper pot stills at Texas' first legal distillery.[5][4][2] By 2001, the brand was no longer a micro-distillery, having surpassed the industry standard of 40,000 cases for a craft distillery as defined by the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States(DISCUS).
Now made in a facility with ten floor-to-ceiling stills and equipment bottling 500 cases an hour,[6] the brand recorded a sales volume of approximately 3.8 million 9-liter cases in the United States as of 2016[7] and a market share of 7.1% of the United States Vodka market as of 2017.[8]
In 2014, two false advertising lawsuits were filed against Tito's in California and Florida. The California lawsuit alleged that Tito's vodka cannot be described as "handmade" because it is distilled in a large industrial complex with modern, technologically advanced stills; and is produced and bottled in extremely large quantities. Since the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau, which regulates labeling of liquor in the US, does not actually define "handmade," both lawsuits rely on the dictionary definition of the word.[16][17] By 2016, the lawsuits had either been settled out of court or dismissed.”
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It's definitely being produced on an industrial scale. Small batch it is not. Which lends credibility to what I've been told by a couple of people in the industry.
I think people would be shocked if they knew where the plethora of brands on the market these days actually come from and how they came to be.
