Infinity Kappa 9 vs Kappa 8...Pros and Cons?

[CarnahanBB]

the 9 simply has a supertweeter and an extra woofer, so the only differences you'd expect would be at the frequency extremes (and less of a difference in the high end since the regular EMITs can play up to 30kHz themselves). by and large the 8 and 9 should sound very similar. this thread is the first time i can recall reading about AKers implying that the 9 completely outclasses the 8. in fact, some have previously stated that the 8's bass is easier to accomodate in some rooms, giving it a potential advantage beyond being easier to power.

You touched on what my gut was telling me. If the two speakers have the same compliment of drivers minus an extra 12'' woofer and SEMIT a world of difference could not be expected. Frankly, I am more than happy with the low frequency response from the 8s. Not to mention that the 9s are even more challenging to drive. The 8s did not seem to pose a challenge to my Adcom 565s.

 

[uvafan420]

the 9 simply has a supertweeter and an extra woofer, so the only differences you'd expect would be at the frequency extremes (and less of a difference in the high end since the regular EMITs can play up to 30kHz themselves). by and large the 8 and 9 should sound very similar. this thread is the first time i can recall reading about AKers implying that the 9 completely outclasses the 8. in fact, some have previously stated that the 8's bass is easier to accomodate in some rooms, giving it a potential advantage beyond being easier to power.

This is something I see a lot on the net. "Should" as in meaning you seemed to have not heard the two in person? I have owned both style of Kappa 9 speakers (bought when they first come out), as well as a recent pair, and recently heard the Kappa 8 a friend has. Amongst other bigger Infinity speakers, as well as other brands.

If music is made to be felt and heard, it means the Kappa 9 has a much easier time in making this happen than it's smaller counterpart. It means it will have a much easier time during heavy bass passages in conveying how the music is suppose to sound and be felt (if driven by proper amps Infinity designed them for). Obviously sharing the same drivers they have the same timbre. For that matter all speakers in the same line has the same "sound" or timbre. Does that mean a Renaissance 80 is better than the 90? Or a B&W Matrix 805 is better than an 801?



BTW, who said anything about being outclassed besides you? I said there is no comparison as the kappa 9 delivers much more at both ends. Just as there is no comparison between the 801 and the 805.

If the human hearing only goes to say, 20khz why would Infinity make a driver go to 44Khz and so on? Because they will be cleaner at 20Khz. Much as the Kappa 9 is as compared, having more drivers to share the load...

If more bass response and cleaner highs is not a great improvement to you, then an amp want help.

Remembering back to the Infinity reps I used to speak to often in Infinity's better days, they would probably wonder how someone would have to waste time explaining to you the Kappa 9 is a better speaker lol... But it is the Internet, full of "Should" and "I Thinks"

BTW, Since a speaker is better if it works better in small rooms and needs less of an amp, the Infinity Minuette is a great pair of speakers that can accommodate small rooms and small amps, maybe consider those to while shopping around.....

 

[EPI-Center]

I'm fine with the Kappa 8 because I can run them with my sansui 9500...that's the amp I prefer and it probably won't do the 9's and I don't care to find out.

I think the 8's are fantastic and I don't have the space for the 9s. I was actually looking at some quantum 2's and some folks told me to keep the 8's, that the 2's wouldn't be that different.

 

[uvafan420]

I'm fine with the Kappa 8 because I can run them with my sansui 9500...that's the amp I prefer and it probably won't do the 9's and I don't care to find out.

I think the 8's are fantastic and I don't have the space for the 9s. I was actually looking at some quantum 2's and some folks told me to keep the 8's, that the 2's wouldn't be that different.

And no one has said it is not a great speaker in it's class. But it was being compared to poppa...

 

[CarnahanBB]

According to Infinity Classics the Kappa 9 is rated 29Hz-45kHz and the Kappa 8 is rated 33Hz-45kHz. I would have thought that the addition of the SEMIT would have been visible in regards to frequency response? I'd love to score a pair of Kappa 9s so I could do a back to back on them.

 

[Ken Boyd]

According to Infinity Classics the Kappa 9 is rated 29Hz-45kHz and the Kappa 8 is rated 33Hz-45kHz. I would have thought that the addition of the SEMIT would have been visible in regards to frequency response? I'd love to score a pair of Kappa 9s so I could do a back to back on them.

Well if you lived close by I would galdly let you use mine for a few months, they are just sitting in a spare room. But I have to agree with the Infinity guy, about an amp being able to work, doesn't mean it will sound the best. The amps I used on them worked, I just didn't think they sounded near as good as they could, and right now I don't have the funds to purchase amps that would make them shine, just as I have my doubts that the adcoms would be a great choice. A pair of those Mesa Barons that Numb driver has for the tops, and a big powerful set of mono block SS amps like a Krell, Threshold, big Mcintosh, anything like that on the bass would probably really make them sound great. The amps I used they worked, they didn't get hot, they went loud, but simply didn't sound good. They sound better when used on the QLS line and the RS-1's but it just reinforce my thoughts that better amps will make all the other speaker that I have really sound much better as well.

As far as the Kappa 8's sounding good I agree I really like the way they sound, but I prefer the QLS-2's sound better, that is just my choice not saying that someone else would prefer the Kappa 8's better because they might like them better. The QLS-2's have a deeper bass, and a smoother more refined top end, and I really like the sound that the mids domes on the QLS's have they just really have a great sound for female vocals and violins, and strings, I just like the way they sound, thats my personal opinion. On rock music its a bit harder to make that decision, in my opinion, rock music is not as critical of a listen as classical or solo vocals, and instrumental music.

 

[Ken Boyd]

This is something I see a lot on the net. "Should" as in meaning you seemed to have not heard the two in person? I have owned both style of Kappa 9 speakers (bought when they first come out), as well as a recent pair, and recently heard the Kappa 8 a friend has. Amongst other bigger Infinity speakers, as well as other brands.

If music is made to be felt and heard, it means the Kappa 9 has a much easier time in making this happen than it's smaller counterpart. It means it will have a much easier time during heavy bass passages in conveying how the music is suppose to sound and be felt (if driven by proper amps Infinity designed them for). Obviously sharing the same drivers they have the same timbre. For that matter all speakers in the same line has the same "sound" or timbre. Does that mean a Renaissance 80 is better than the 90? Or a B&W Matrix 805 is better than an 801?





BTW, who said anything about being outclassed besides you? I said there is no comparison as the kappa 9 delivers much more at both ends. Just as there is no comparison between the 801 and the 805.

If the human hearing only goes to say, 20khz why would Infinity make a driver go to 44Khz and so on? Because they will be cleaner at 20Khz. Much as the Kappa 9 is as compared, having more drivers to share the load...

If more bass response and cleaner highs is not a great improvement to you, then an amp want help.

Remembering back to the Infinity reps I used to speak to often in Infinity's better days, they would probably wonder how someone would have to waste time explaining to you the Kappa 9 is a better speaker lol... But it is the Internet, full of "Should" and "I Thinks"

BTW, Since a speaker is better if it works better in small rooms and needs less of an amp, the Infinity Minuette is a great pair of speakers that can accommodate small rooms and small amps, maybe consider those to while shopping around.....

Can't we keep it friendly?

 

[halo71]

Can't we keep it friendly?

I agree!

 

[uvafan420]

Can't we keep it friendly?

Why is calling someone out about not having heard speakers firsthand before they say how one sounds over the other being unfriendly? Or saying if you find a smaller speaker sounds better in a smaller room try minuettes being unfriendly?

I have 0 posts in threads I have no first hand experience about. That would include speaks like QLS, Quantum etc... As I have never heard nor really ever cared to hunt them down to hear them.
I will post in those I have first hand knowledge on the sound of in owning them or having them in the store. Kappa RS (most of the lines) and Series i, ii (the whole line); Infinity Beta; Compositions, Sigma, Epsilon etc... It seems others don't seem to do this

So needless to say, when people post things like, well I "think", "so and so said", "it "should" this is how mis-information gets spread. And I am sure it is how these people say well so and so said the Kappa 8 sounds better than the 9.
I have listened to both these speakers quite a bit with a large Krell amp, and there is no debate from anyone I have spoke to and has first hand knowledge having heard both with the same easily capable amp.

And to go back, if you hunt down a pair of Kappa 9s and hook them to the amps you listed, I am sure the kappa 8 will sound about the same in all honesty. It is not about "watts" it is about "current", "reserves" etc...

Ask yourself, why does a great Krell weigh like 140lbs and an Adcom say 40lbs? But both can say they are 200 or 250wpc. Do I like the fact the capable amps are so expensive? Of course not. But it takes what it takes on certain speakers; and that is a fact...

 

[Ken Boyd]

Its just as you put it, calling them out, its not like they committed a crime or offended your wife or anything. It is in the way you posted your response, it was almost vicious. Everyone who read his post can conclude that his post was speculation and stated what others had said about the Kappa's. I am sure we all can make our own decisions and will are capable of weighing speculation over other posters first hand experince.

Since you personally have no experince with the QLS-1s, and the QLS-2's which I own and I own both Kappa 9's and Kappa 8's when I say the QLS-1's, and the QLS-2's are a far better speaker in every way than either the Kappa 9 or Kappa 8, that I would expect you to sit back and keep quite because you have not owned the QLS's is simply absured.

But I am surprised that you have no interest in the QLS line up as they were great speakers and I enjoy them very much. Maybe we should all just keep quite about anything that we have not owned in order to insure only truths are told on AK, come on we are not in court or anything we are just having fun talking about audio. If I had a dollar for everything incorrectly stated here in AK I would be rich, but that doesn't mean we can't still be civil to everyone and if someone says something that you know is not true or somehow misstated, you can add your input, but can't it be in a manner that is not so vindictive?

 

[cdfac]

well, i would have to agree that i was a bit surprised at the intensity of uvafan's response to my post. valid points were of course made (most of which i already agreed with anyway), but i looked back and i guess he was the one that clearly said the 9 sounded better than the 8 in every way (FYI, i consider that "outclassing"). i was merely briefly (perhaps too briefly) stating why i thought "on paper" that it was unlikely that this would be an obvious result, considering that for most of the frequency range the two speakers are nearly electrically identical.

i probably could have made my response clearer, but i don't see anything wrong in presenting the information that i did in balance to uvafan's subjective conclusions. after all, i can't be the only AKer who went into a comparison and has came out with very different aural conclusions than another AKer despite expecting to hear the same thing that other AKer heard. i think it's healthy to look at these things from all different angles. no hard feelings or anything, and if people feel i'm still off-base, so be it. i don't have anything more to say in this thread anyway.

but all of that being said, on a related note, i would go on record saying that i don't think the Polygraph should have ever been asked to play down to 90Hz. i thought that was the main weakness of the 9, and though never having heard the 8, i'd hazard a guess that it would seem to suffer from the same issue. on the 8, they should have taken advantage of the smaller radiating area of the single 12" woofer to raise the crossover point up at least another octave or so. the QLS1, OTOH, has midbass grunt to spare (for some, maybe even to a fault).

 

[EPI-Center]

so Ken when you say the qls has deeper bass than the kappas, when you say deeper is there just more push, or are we talking clarity and firmness? I'm concerned with the clarity of the deep bass...I don't want boom.

I could always sell my kappas and get some qls2's....but I'm not sure the sansui 9500 could drive the qls2s

 

[Jygesq]

Have you tried a large amp?

so Ken when you say the qls has deeper bass than the kappas, when you say deeper is there just more push, or are we talking clarity and firmness? I'm concerned with the clarity of the deep bass...I don't want boom.

I could always sell my kappas and get some qls2's....but I'm not sure the sansui 9500 could drive the qls2s

It might vastly improve your sound. I not saying this to be
a snob, but before you change speakers borrow an amp and see if it improves the sound.

 

[uvafan420]

I own and I own both Kappa 9's and Kappa 8's when I say the QLS-1's, and the QLS-2's are a far better speaker in every way than either the Kappa 9 or Kappa 8, that I would expect you to sit back and keep quite because you have not owned the QLS's is simply absured

I would not have to keep quiet on that because you yourself said you did not have the amps to drive the Kappa 9 properly to be able to tell the true differences in bass etc... :thmbsp:

Think about all that you say for a minute though. If posting in an audio forum asking which of these two speakers are better performers, and or the audible differences? Do you want to hear from people who have heard both? Or, someone saying well I think this should sound like this because the specs say this.
The specs on a Kenwood M2a says 200wpc and a Krell 200s says 200wpc, but hearing them in the same room, you will soon notice that spec means nothing to the true power they put out...

And no I can't comment on QLS vs Kappa, but I could comment on the Beta vs Kappa, or Kappa vs Composition, kappa vs sigma, sigma vs beta etc... I would not answer in a thread asking about a QLS vs Kappa as I would do the OP no good in finding out the sound differences between the two, as I have never even seen a QLS. I would be wasting my time and the OP's time in trying to answer with fluff.

 

[jt45]

If I had a dollar for everything incorrectly stated here in AK I would be rich,

If I had all the great speakers you have I would consider myself awful wealthy.

But seriously I had the QLS1s but they needed more space than I could give them to sound THE BEST and although I loved them, for my Medium sized rooms Ive heard better from smaller speakers but thats what makes this hobby so great, every situation is different an new.

Regards

JT

 

[Ken Boyd]

so Ken when you say the qls has deeper bass than the kappas, when you say deeper is there just more push, or are we talking clarity and firmness? I'm concerned with the clarity of the deep bass...I don't want boom.

I could always sell my kappas and get some qls2's....but I'm not sure the sansui 9500 could drive the qls2s

I find the Watkins driver to dive deeper in the bass regions than the Kappa's using the same amps. And I find them just as clear as the Kappa's bass, tight, and accurate. I think the QLS-2 has more volume in the cabinet as well. That is based on my experince.

 

[EPI-Center]

It might vastly improve your sound. I not saying this to be
a snob, but before you change speakers borrow an amp and see if it improves the sound.

not taken that way...I started the kappa 8's with a B&K which I consider to be fairly high current, it sounded great, I can't remember why I dragged the 9500 down but I tried it and liked the sound a little better, the B&K does better to open the bass up for sure.

anyway, not to derail the OP's thread with my questions...my point is that if you love certain amps that are not necessarily high current, the 8's will work for you depending on the amp. I wouldn't even try the 9's on any of my vintage stuff, maybe the B&K.

 

[Ken Boyd]

If I had all the great speakers you have I would consider myself awful wealthy.

But seriously I had the QLS1s but they needed more space than I could give them to sound THE BEST and although I loved them, for my Medium sized rooms Ive heard better from smaller speakers but thats what makes this hobby so great, every situation is different an new.

Regards

JT

I am sure that are plenty of smaller very good speakers that in a smaller room would do just as good as the QLS-1's, There are a lot of very hi quailty speakers of all sizes, But its hard to get the deep base regions that the QLS-1 is capable in a smaller speaker, just because its hard to get really low frequenies from a small cabinet. At least that is what I have experinced, big drivers, in big cabinets just seem to be more capable of reaching those deep bass frequencies. The low frequency range of the bass in the QLS-1 spec says 18hz +/- 2 db where a Watkins in a QLS-2 is 24hz +/- 3 db bass driver 902-1180 part number which is the same part number Watkins driver for the QLS-1. Using the same Waktins driver in the much larger cabinet of the QLS-1 you are able to go 6hz lower with a slightly closer to flat response. I don't know if its possible to get a small speaker to dip that low in the bass frequencies yet alone remain close to flat in db's. For that matter if you use a sub, you better have a good sub, as 18hz is pretty darn deep, and unless you get a very expensive sub its not going to dip that low, even the QLS-2's 24hz is pretty low if you look at specs for cheap or even midgrade subs many of them don't have specs that good. Now that is not based on actual experince in listening to subs but just on looking at many manufactors specs.

 

[Ken Boyd]

not taken that way...I started the kappa 8's with a B&K which I consider to be fairly high current, it sounded great, I can't remember why I dragged the 9500 down but I tried it and liked the sound a little better, the B&K does better to open the bass up for sure.

anyway, not to derail the OP's thread with my questions...my point is that if you love certain amps that are not necessarily high current, the 8's will work for you depending on the amp. I wouldn't even try the 9's on any of my vintage stuff, maybe the B&K.

I would love some better amps as well, but a person can only afford so much for hobby expenses. I suppose if I quite purchasing some of the stuff that I have purchased I could focus more on some good amps, and thats my goal, but it never seems to fail I find some great deal and I just can't seem to pass it by. I just purchased a pair of Infinity RSIIb's just because the price was so good, and they are the last thing I need. But from now on, I am going to try and restrain from any more good deals on speakers, and focus on two things. Some good mono blocks for bass duty, and some good mono block tubes for high duty, and I want to find one more turntable, an Empire I just fell in love with the style of them.

 

[jt45]

I am sure that are plenty of smaller very good speakers that in a smaller room would do just as good as the QLS-1's, There are a lot of very hi quailty speakers of all sizes, But its hard to get the deep base regions that the QLS-1 is capable in a smaller speaker, just because its hard to get really low frequenies from a small cabinet. At least that is what I have experinced, big drivers, in big cabinets just seem to be more capable of reaching those deep bass frequencies. The low frequency range of the bass in the QLS-1 spec says 18hz +/- 2 db where a Watkins in a QLS-2 is 24hz +/- 3 db bass driver 902-1180 part number which is the same part number Watkins driver for the QLS-1. Using the same Waktins driver in the much larger cabinet of the QLS-1 you are able to go 6hz lower with a slightly closer to flat response. I don't know if its possible to get a small speaker to dip that low in the bass frequencies yet alone remain close to flat in db's. For that matter if you use a sub, you better have a good sub, as 18hz is pretty darn deep, and unless you get a very expensive sub its not going to dip that low, even the QLS-2's 24hz is pretty low if you look at specs for cheap or even midgrade subs many of them don't have specs that good. Now that is not based on actual experince in listening to subs but just on looking at many manufactors specs.

The problem I have with big speakers like the QLS isn't related to how low they will go but more about being able to place them in order for them to work as intended, they and many others just need too much room out from the wall in order to sound right IMO. Having spent alot of time trying to get that right, I finally decided to find a better match for my particular situation
Im sure many others here have had speakers that were just too big for their rooms. As much as I enjoyed owning and hearing them in the end it was like using a sledghammer to drive a finishing nail, now if I had a large dedicated room then Im sure I would have kept them regardless of the tragic personal circumstances I was dealing with at the time.


My point for sharing my opinion was mainly to point out to the OP that sometimes you can get more balance with a smaller speaker if the room
isn't big enough to let the big boys (like the QLS1s) open up. I do have a sub but Im not a fan of using a sub with any speaker that will go as low as 35hz for music.

Make no mistake Im a huge QLS fan but they do need alot of power and space
to live up to their reputation and if I had been in a position to do so I would have kept them until I could have gave them that, on the other hand I enjoy smaller Infinity's just as much with less demands.