Is Rock and Roll Dead???

[Theo Simon]

I agree.
One doesn't have to define his or herself by the popular music when they grew up.
Personally I like most Types of music, rock, DIY, bluegrass/blues, classical...etc-whatever, and can appreciate it, but I don't prefer all of it, especially if it's a mailed in performance, or just plain bad.
For example I can appreciate the Eagles, but never bought a single L/P. Just didn't prefer their brand of music.
I have all the Zep L/p's, but have't listened to one in years-they grew thin for me after a few years as their brand of blues is clearly a matter of taste, interesting, but a matter of taste- and I grew out of it for what ever reason (the Stones early blues/rockabilly was more my styles anyway).
The problem I have with the Stones now is that it's totally mailed in IMHO-same with the Who.
The energy and "realitiveness" (if you will) they had years ago is gone, and there is little there for me now.
The Stones manage to have a least one or 2 catchy tunes in there last releases, but they have little life.
Sure, business wise they are in the tops, but the quality of the music finally died in the early 80's IMHO.
Music/bands is all a matter of taste anyway, but it's hard to judge IMHO the quality of a band by weather it sells out a ball field or mega stadium. I think we are moving away from that Woodstock based standard hopefully.
Bands that are more interested in producing quality/interesting music then simply marketing a product.....to sell to the masses of "stadium minds" (Mike Watt), or simply rest on their past laurels...

People don't have time for arena acts any more, or the acts aren't worth seeing (if they ever were). Baby Boomers are the largest demographic group, and they are generally speaking too old to go to or care about large concerts.

Only acts that continued to appeal to succeeding generations (such as Pink Floyd) were able to draw stadium-size crowds after the 70s. The Floyd toured in the US in 1993 or so, playing stadiums, and that was perhaps the end of that era. U2 was an exception. By the 1990s, most acts of the 70s were washed up. People still bought their recordings out of habit, and perhaps because they didn't know about newer acts or care for them. I did. I liked Eurhythmics, Spandau Ballet, and other 80s and 90s acts. Ever heard Over the Rhine?

 

[KrisM]

I'm talking about the specific theme of this thread. Which is basically "Why isn't the type of music that I grew up with still packing stadiums?" Of course you can love what you grew up with and love something else, but there's many who don't display that trait. I just don't understand why. If you love music, branch out. It doesn't make the old stuff go away.

I'm OK with people who want to stay stuck. But I'm not OK when they proclaim that everything else is crap. That goes for all genres. Blanket statements are just pointless with music. I could look back at my generation's music and bag on it like it nothing but Right Said Fred, Milli Vanilli, and Roxette. Or I can just appreciate the stuff that I actually liked, and still like. And then explore something new, and then something from the 30s or whatever. Being a music lover and not exploring a little bit seems strange to me.

 

[automojo]

I agree.
The stadium venues were a relic of the Woodstock era, along with their definitions of success/relevance.
Peoples access to music, along with everything else is completely different now.
Along with a million other competing interests for their precious dollars.
All good things IMHO, but that of course depends on you point of view.
The unreal, and relatively easy access to all thing music is a wonderful thing IMHO.
Hard to imagine that flipping through L/p's in the 70's, or even cd in the 80's/early 90's.
I sort of miss the record stores, but not really. Access is king IMHO.
As far as live shows, depending on where you live there is a lot of good small venue shows if you look.
I'm spoiled having easy access to the Twin Cities Area and Madison, but I'm sure they are more then enough areas with a little effort.
The tickets are cheaper, you have a better time IMHO, and can actually interact with the band, have a few drinks and enjoy yourself.

 

[KrisM]

We don't get many stadium shows here, but the boomer acts play the arena a lot. It is a huge business.

 

[Andyman]

I'm talking about the specific theme of this thread. Which is basically "Why isn't the type of music that I grew up with still packing stadiums?" Of course you can love what you grew up with and love something else, but there's many who don't display that trait. I just don't understand why. If you love music, branch out. It doesn't make the old stuff go away.

Well put. I guess it pretty much answers the titles question with a "Yes" (times change) and Rap or Pop seems to rule now, although Country seems to be very popular too. Rock is still around, but it's not the heavyweight it once was.

Hey, that's kind of ironic using a boxing analogy as back in the day when I watched it a bit we had Ali, Frazier, Norton, Foreman, and the likes, but now I have no clue if there even is a Heavyweight Crown...

Yeah, yeah, I know John, just more hanging on to the past..

 

[JohnVF]

Ever heard Over the Rhine?

I've been meaning to check them out for a decade. Why? Well in 1999 my then-girlfriend and I were up in D.C. and learned that the Cowboy Junkies were playing a sold out show at the Wolf Trap, and we decided to see if our then-uninterupted streak of managing to get into sold out shows would stand. So we drove over there and as soon as we got near the place, some guy walks up to us and says "You need tickets" and I said "yes". And he just gave us two tickets. Him and his lady had showed up for some band called Over The Rhine, and they'd cancelled as the opening act. So he didn't want to see the show anymore. And so, I thank Over The Rhine because they were seats about 5 rows back! For free! Till this day I haven't heard them.

Ok, back to the thread. I had totally forgotten about that experience and it was a great day and just wanted to share. Very happy to have been reminded of it!

 

[KrisM]

I've been meaning to check them out for a decade. Why? Well in 1999 my then-girlfriend and I were up in D.C. and learned that the Cowboy Junkies were playing a sold out show at the Wolf Trap, and we decided to see if our then-uninterupted streak of managing to get into sold out shows would stand. So we drove over there and as soon as we got near the place, some guy walks up to us and says "You need tickets" and I said "yes". And he just gave us two tickets. Him and his lady had showed up for some band called Over The Rhine, and they'd cancelled as the opening act. So he didn't want to see the show anymore. And so, I thank Over The Rhine because they were seats about 5 rows back! For free! Till this day I haven't heard them.

Ok, back to the thread. I had totally forgotten about that experience and it was a great day and just wanted to share. Very happy to have been reminded of it!

A few years before that, I was at a 13 Engines show, and the opening group(Treble Charger) cancelled. It seemed like the crowd was more into seeing them than 13 Engines, so they passed out IOUs. I never did see them. I think I still have that IOU somewhere.

 

[JohnVF]

Well put. I guess it pretty much answers the titles question with a "Yes" (times change) and Rap or Pop seems to rule now, although Country seems to be very popular too. Rock is still around, but it's not the heavyweight it once was.

Hey, that's kind of ironic using a boxing analogy as back in the day when I watched it a bit we had Ali, Frazier, Norton, Foreman, and the likes, but now I have no clue if there even is a Heavyweight Crown...

Yeah, yeah, I know John, just more hanging on to the past..

Obviously I don't have too much of an issue with hanging onto the past, or I wouldn't keep showing up. Its just an easy target . My house looks like a time capsule from '62 so I'm nostalgic for a time before I was even born.

One thing to consider, as I was just reading about it this morning, is this evil entity known as Clear Channel. They were mentioned earlier in the thread but I just want to rag on them some more. Over 15 years they've been homogenizing FM radio, from a local personality and cultural medium, to a national crap-funnel designed to get advertising into a specific target that really isn't into music, but uses FM as background. So FM goes to ****, and with it all the concert goers that are into music, but who aren't really into it enough to bother to track it down in one of the alternate ways mentioned in this thread, which take a lot of time and dedication.

So ClearChannel comes in, consolidates formats under Top-40, and in effect gains control of the Stadium Rock business because a lot of those people just show up, because its something to do and they've heard the song 100 times, its not because they're REALLY into the deep cuts or the whole albums. They're there for what they heard on the radio. I'd bet this was the case with the Stones. They're their for Satisfaction, not "I am waiting", or anything else that rarely makes it down the pop-pipe.

If ClearChannel decided rock was profitable and started playing rock all day, then it would pack stadiums again. They sort of did this in the early '90s with Alt Rock but that burned out because it was never about music and almost solely about marketing, after the initial wave of legitimately sincere bands.

 

[automojo]

Well put. I guess it pretty much answers the titles question with a "Yes" (times change) and Rap or Pop seems to rule now, although Country seems to be very popular too. Rock is still around, but it's not the heavyweight it once was.

I suppose it depends on your definition of Rock n' Roll....if it's a 60's/70's "classic" definition I agree.
Music types evolve, but never really "die".
I think part of the problem here is putting one type of definition on rock n' roll as a standard, especially a "classic" 60/70's one on it.
In fact to some of us-this (60's/70's) era was the dark ages of rock n roll with all the excess apart from the music itself.
In part what gave rise to the late 70's/80's DIY/indie bands.
Personally I think it's (rock) alive and well in many types of music.

 

[Andyman]

I suppose it depends on your definition of Rock n' Roll....if it's a 60's/70's "classic" definition I agree.
Music types evolve, but never really "die".

Yeah, dead is probably too strong, but it certainly isn't the force it used to be.

If ClearChannel decided rock was profitable and started playing rock all day, then it would pack stadiums again.

Interesting, as I would think the CC is serving up what the masses want so they can bill out the commercials at max rates. I don't know as I tend to avoid CC and favor a couple local NPRs for my radio listening these days.

 

[John Hukill]

If ClearChannel decided rock was profitable and started playing rock all day, then it would pack stadiums again. They sort of did this in the early '90s with Alt Rock but that burned out because it was never about music and almost solely about marketing, after the initial wave of legitimately sincere bands.

Bingo...:thmbsp:
Most new rock music is only getting air play on college radio/NPR stations.
These days most FM rock stations don't play new rock,even the stations that aren't considered classic rock mainly play
rock music from the early 2000s and back.Most of the current new rock can only be heard on NPR...

 

[chicks]

Dead to me. Boring, boring, boring. Yes, that includes PF and Dylan.

 

[automojo]

Bingo...:thmbsp:
Most new rock music is only getting air play on college radio/NPR stations.
These days most FM rock stations don't play new rock,even the stations that aren't considered classic rock mainly play
rock music from the early 2000s and back.Most of the current new rock can only be heard on NPR...

Sure, but there is a whole other world of musical access, and kids are more then aware of this.
Bands have many more ways of distributing their music.
I think your going by what your see on TV/hear on radio.
The stadium venue, as mentioned is a old model of success.
Lot's of successful bands that are doing fine, just not choosing to play stadium venues.
We Jam Econo, DIY, selling out stadiums for many bands isn't a measure of success for them, or even now radio play, as the Internet (NPR also) and XM, etc provide a lower cost, wider based medium for them.
Limiting your music listening to what's on the radio won't get you even close to all the new stuff out there (if it even did back in the day).
Categorizing, convince, packaging is still what most radio is about.
They want to make money, with little real effort, and still act like they are cutting edge.
The local 93X fm here is a classic case of this, for example, supposedly ALT/Hard cutting edge rock, not so, they are a bunch of dinosaurs that haven't moved beyond Nirvana...and Bevis and Butt Head...huh, huh,huh ....
Billy Joel was right-it's still Rock N Roll, new/old/ whatever, still alive and well. You just have to look at other sources for the new and fresh stuff.

 

[JohnVF]

Bingo...:thmbsp:
Most new rock music is only getting air play on college radio/NPR stations.
These days most FM rock stations don't play new rock,even the stations that aren't considered classic rock mainly play
rock music from the early 2000s and back.Most of the current new rock can only be heard on NPR...

As said above, that wasn't exactly what i was getting at. FM, to me, is, today, the way people that aren't into music look for music. But those people make up a lot of the folks in big stadium shows.

Judging music by the quality of today's FM is like judging the quality of current movies by going to a museum and looking through a zoetrope.

 

[John Hukill]

Sure, but there is a whole other world of musical access, and kids are more then aware of this.
Bands have many more ways of distributing their music.
I think your going by what your see on TV/hear on radio.
The stadium venue, as mentioned is a old model of success.
Lot's of successful bands that are doing fine, just not choosing to play stadium venues.
We Jam Econo, DIY, selling out stadiums for many bands isn't a measure of success for them, or even now radio play, as the Internet (NPR also) and XM, etc provide a lower cost, wider based medium for them.
Limiting your music listening to what's on the radio won't get you even close to all the new stuff out there (if it even did back in the day).
Categorizing, convince, packaging is still what most radio is about.
They want to make money, with little real effort, and still act like they are cutting edge.
The local 93X fm here is a classic case of this, for example, supposedly ALT/Hard cutting edge rock, not so, they are a bunch of dinosaurs that haven't moved beyond Nirvana...and Bevis and Butt Head...huh, huh,huh ....
Billy Joel was right-it's still Rock N Roll, new/old/ whatever, still alive and well. You just have to look at other sources for the new and fresh stuff.

:thmbsp:

As said above, that wasn't exactly what i was getting at. FM, to me, is, today, the way people that aren't into music look for music. But those people make up a lot of the folks in big stadium shows.

Judging music by the quality of today's FM is like judging the quality of current movies by going to a museum and looking through a zoetrope.

Got ya!:thmbsp:

 

[JohnVF]

Got ya!:thmbsp:

I don't give FM another 10 years. At least not in any sort of mass audience. ClearChannel recently just laid off a whole bunch of people, the format is dying. And they killed it. Something better will take its place in the mainstream.

 

[Homerx]

FM seems to have whats called Active Rock some newer stuff but a lot of the same old stuff over and over.
Almost never listen to the Radio mostly use a tape deck converter to play stuff from a phone Via FLAC files. I haven't tried using Pandora yet though

 

[John Hukill]

I don't give FM another 10 years. At least not in any sort of mass audience. ClearChannel recently just laid off a whole bunch of people, the format is dying. And they killed it. Something better will take its place in the mainstream.

I never listen to FM radio for music any more.I usually don't listen to any music while I'm in my car.I like saving it for when I'm home spinning it on vinyl.
I discover new music mostly from friends and places online like AK.

 

[Greyson]

Something better will take its place in the mainstream.

Something already has, Internet Radio over WiFi.

 

[Theo Simon]

Dead to me. Boring, boring, boring. Yes, that includes PF and Dylan.

Pink Floyd has had some moments, but Dylan? No way. I hated all the music of the 60s (with a few exceptions). Dylan is at the top of that 'most hated' list.

Some of the instrumental parts of The Wall by Gilmore are brilliant.

Roger Waters, on the other hand, I can do without.

I have always wondered what would happen if they took the guys from Banco and let them play with the guys from Pink Floyd. I can assure you it would be spectacular!

Non mi rompete and R.I.P. with Gilmore and the guys sitting in?

http://youtu.be/vIGvLXHd2ZM

http://youtu.be/53O81rAzt7o