Login Problems with Political Chat Forum

[stereofanboy]

I don't get why you guys keep trying to post your political views on AK. Nobody wants to hear it.

That's easy. Someone will make a comment that is political and someone who disagrees will respond and it goes downhill from there.

The first guy pretends he doesn't recognize his comment as political because he can't fathom anyone here disagreeing with him. He is surprised by any pushback.

The second person knows damn well his opinion isn't shared by all but can't bring himself to let the first guy's comment go unchallenged.

 

[Mystic]

The first guy pretends he doesn't recognize his comment as political because he can't fathom anyone here disagreeing with him. He is surprised by any pushback.

This ^^^.

 

[Mystic]

Comment: On a positive note, we're (almost) never even close to "political" @ theMusic Forums, the Musical Instruments Forums, or the Show Us Your Dinner thread.

Heck, even the myriad "cable" discussions that go south (usually kinda fast) ain't political... they are territorial. Sorta.

 

[Shominy]

That's easy. Someone will make a comment that is political and someone who disagrees will respond and it goes downhill from there.

The first guy pretends he doesn't recognize his comment as political because he can't fathom anyone here disagreeing with him. He is surprised by any pushback.

The second person knows damn well his opinion isn't shared by all but can't bring himself to let the first guy's comment go unchallenged.

The lack of op topic, thread, and rules discipline is stunning on AK in places. I really do not encounter that on other non-audio forums in which I participate.

The idea that "threads are a conversation that weave and dance" is valid, but only to a point. How many times have you seen an adult in the room have to make a comment to snap it all back to topic? Sometimes tho, the same circle of people just clamp down like a pitbull and won't let go (and it's not just politics).

It all reminds me of the texting scenario- neither one wants to just end the conversation, so it goes on and on. ..

 

[Dingman]

Those were the first steps I tried, Ernie. Exhausted all avenues and then fired off emails. All of those went nowhere. Comes a time when it just seems pointless to keep banging your noggin on the brick wall of not getting access to the forum.

Same here when a non political post was deleted for a picture that was deemed political, that had no political overtones. Those emails go unanswered too. Pointless to ask for clarification on why it was deemed political.

Same, I've sent the emails.

 

[hjames]

I dunno, I've only been a mod here for a year or two, but when someone asks me in a PM why their post was deleted, I generally give them an answer.
Sometimes I delete a post that quoted a troublesome post from someone else, and, if I have time,
I generally explain and say "You quoted a post with political content, so I had to remove your post too, no flames meant..."

 

[Shominy]

I dunno, I've only been a mod here for a year or two, but when someone asks me in a PM why their post was deleted, I generally give them an answer.
Sometimes I delete a post that quoted a troublesome post from someone else, and, if I have time,
I generally explain and say "You quoted a post with political content, so I had to remove your post too, no flames meant..."

Yes, you have been the most communicative Mod here for me, and I appreciate that.

 

[DesertRatt]

How come all you political animals are scarce at Grumpy's PoliticalChat? That's where this bullshit belongs. smh...
I
Both sides.

Yesterday, that post was a mystery to me. Then it went from mystery to revelation which I'm sure wasn't the intention of the writer.

It was recently revealed that Twitter was paying lots of people $150,000 salary to "maintain the narrative at any cost." But it turns out that the expense was wasteful and unnecessary. People will do that work for free. People often wonder how the Internet as a mass communication tool failed to create the scale of change it promised in its early visionary days. Using a variation of the theory of "herd immunity" the majority, who embrace the mainstream orthodoxy, will work vigorously and diligently to weed out any challenge to the approved public narrative. It's a marvel of human psychology. The resistance to, and elimination of different ideas, is after all, the roots of war.

That post above was an abusive personal attack on the enthusiastic and very polite participants of the thread, who were not in any way being out of line except by virtue of dissecting conventional wisdom about energy related issues (a very broad subject matter) The responses to it tell the whole story-no need to review.

For the record, I'm not a "political animal" of any stripe. I don't vote. I don't support political parties or politicians or engage in the nonsensical equivalent of "My Ford is better than your Chevy" arguments that wallpaper the so-called political fora on the Internet (FWIW, after that post was made I did visit the GrumpyPoliticalChat forum and easily confirmed my assumptions about the typical content--none of which was remotely akin to the subject matter and discussion level that the poster was insisting be shut down in my energy thread. "Controversial" is not to be conflated with "political."

The Internet---where everyone is a guest in someone else's house. But who's house?

 

[hjames]

You do have to understand that some of us who have been here a few years have seen some deliberate attacks on reasonable discussions here.
I know previous mods deleted a whole "bro gang" at one point that would gang up on some members here and drive them out. I know I have personally deleted a couple folks that seem to get a real kick out of taking other discussions into the political netherlands for the sheer joy of getting someone's thread locked down.
I think they take it like collecting notches on their holster ...
Its getting better than it was, but there are still a few folks who argue for the sheer joy of arguing, no matter what the sides are.

I think Grumpy's idea of the Political Chat site was that folks would go there and start a topic that might get contentious and let it play out in a more open space than AK can allow.
Its not meant to be an echo chamber either way ... but if no one participates ... it'll look like that.
Sadly, I haven't had much time to spend there myself - with AK and the Lansing Heritage site, some chill time for music and video,
my days have been pretty full already!

 

[stereofanboy]

...(FWIW, after that post was made I did visit the GrumpyPoliticalChat forum and easily confirmed my assumptions about the typical content--none of which was remotely akin to the subject matter and discussion level that the poster was insisting be shut down in my energy thread. "Controversial" is not to be conflated with "political."...

There are so many subjects that aren't inherently political that get treated as such.

I think that is because people on the same political side tend to agree on these non inherently political subjects. This occurs naturally to some extent.

It also occurs when some wholeheartedly embrace everything associated with their party affiliation as a sort of shortcut to thinking things through for themselves.

Some are cowed into toeing the Party line to avoid the stigma of being expelled as a heretic.

As a result, subjects that aren't really political get treated as such. It's sad because hearing all sides in an argument is a good way to learn enough about a subject to form your own opinion.

 

[stereofanboy]

...Grumpy's idea of the Political Chat site was that folks would go there and start a topic that might get contentious and let it play out in a more open space than AK can allow.
Its not meant to be an echo chamber either way ... but if no one participates ... it'll look like that...

I've visit Political Chat periodically and have always found it to be one sided to the point that anyone offering a different point of view was definitely not welcome.

Several times I've thought to introduce subjects that could be enjoyed by all (the sort of thread that always end up closed here) but I haven't been able to sign in there for years.

 

[Alobar]

How I tend to get in trouble with the politics law is that there doesn't seem to be a clear line to not ever cross. I could give an opinion on any subject and just because it may align with a political party, it might get shut down, if not by the mods, than some other people freaking out. Then there are those who bypass the politics discussion law by talking political in code. Who doesn't know what is referred to when talking about some "Orange Man"? I like to think of it as similar to spelling some profanity using a few symbols in the middle. I have seen moderators do this code thing as well. There are good reasons to prohibit politics in discussions, however the no politics rules always will be taken over some arbitrary line from time to time. OK, fine, it is not like someone shot someone's puppy or something! A lot of it is in the defining of said politics. I, along with @DesertRatt and a couple others have divorced ourselves completely from the duopoly, the farce as I like to call it, of politics. But stating that would throw me way over the line with those still immersed in what I call the big lie.

Apologies in advance to any moderators that I have ever made trouble for in cleaning up after me, past, present and future. But if we are truly going to have a no politics site, then there should be at least a consideration of NOT having a general off topics forum in the first place as that is where 90% of the violations occur.

 

[DesertRatt]

As a result, subjects that aren't really political get treated as such.

Yes, they very often do get stamped "Pxxxxxxxl" because the population is perpetually drowning in Television and Radio whose sole source of income depends on "managing the attentions of the population." To that end, the communications industry discovered that all public eyeballs can easily be captured by reducing all topics to a debate of "Ford vs. Chevy."

In that process, which has been ongoing for about 40 years now, the following subjects have been blackballed from public discussion in the broadcast media: sociology, psychology, ethics, morality, philosophy, and spirituality. The object is to shrink the intellectual sphere of all public debate down to such a degree it fits into two tiny, meaningless, bite-sized worldviews that require nothing more from the viewers than to distinguish the "blue oval" from the "red bowtie". Ergo, everyone begins to conflate "controversial" ideas with "Pxxxxxxxl" ideas, because they have simply never realized that all these extra dimensions in life even exist. "Pxxxxxxxl" is the default fast food hamburger of the public's intellectual diet.

 

[bobabode]

Yesterday, that post was a mystery to me. Then it went from mystery to revelation which I'm sure wasn't the intention of the writer.

It was recently revealed that Twitter was paying lots of people $150,000 salary to "maintain the narrative at any cost." But it turns out that the expense was wasteful and unnecessary. People will do that work for free. People often wonder how the Internet as a mass communication tool failed to create the scale of change it promised in its early visionary days. Using a variation of the theory of "herd immunity" the majority, who embrace the mainstream orthodoxy, will work vigorously and diligently to weed out any challenge to the approved public narrative. It's a marvel of human psychology. The resistance to, and elimination of different ideas, is after all, the roots of war.

That post above was an abusive personal attack on the enthusiastic and very polite participants of the thread, who were not in any way being out of line except by virtue of dissecting conventional wisdom about energy related issues (a very broad subject matter) The responses to it tell the whole story-no need to review.

For the record, I'm not a "political animal" of any stripe. I don't vote. I don't support political parties or politicians or engage in the nonsensical equivalent of "My Ford is better than your Chevy" arguments that wallpaper the so-called political fora on the Internet (FWIW, after that post was made I did visit the GrumpyPoliticalChat forum and easily confirmed my assumptions about the typical content--none of which was remotely akin to the subject matter and discussion level that the poster was insisting be shut down in my energy thread. "Controversial" is not to be conflated with "political."

The Internet---where everyone is a guest in someone else's house. But who's house?

Abusive? Asking you and your circle of likeminded friends to stop violating the very first rule of Grumpy's forum is being abusive? Wow!

 

[bobabode]

You do have to understand that some of us who have been here a few years have seen some deliberate attacks on reasonable discussions here.
I know previous mods deleted a whole "bro gang" at one point that would gang up on some members here and drive them out. I know I have personally deleted a couple folks that seem to get a real kick out of taking other discussions into the political netherlands for the sheer joy of getting someone's thread locked down.
I think they take it like collecting notches on their holster ...
Its getting better than it was, but there are still a few folks who argue for the sheer joy of arguing, no matter what the sides are.

I think Grumpy's idea of the Political Chat site was that folks would go there and start a topic that might get contentious and let it play out in a more open space than AK can allow.
Its not meant to be an echo chamber either way ... but if no one participates ... it'll look like that.
Sadly, I haven't had much time to spend there myself - with AK and the Lansing Heritage site, some chill time for music and video,
my days have been pretty full already!

Right to the heart of that specious argument. Thanks, Heather.

 

[hjames]

I don't know, but free-range libertarianism doesn't fit the Ford v Chevy binary either, but its still a political perspective ...
Socialism, Communism, and a lot of other perspectives when considering how things can change, good or bd.
Sheesh, there's a lot more than two reductionary perspectives in place, much as they may pretend otherwise.
Suffice it to say- this is heading off the site and the thread can be closed since How to Fix a Login issue at Political Talk has been discussed.

 

[bobabode]

Yes, they very often do get stamped "Pxxxxxxxl" because the population is perpetually drowning in Television and Radio whose sole source of income depends on "managing the attentions of the population." To that end, the communications industry discovered that all public eyeballs can easily be captured by reducing all topics to a debate of "Ford vs. Chevy."

In that process, which has been ongoing for about 40 years now, the following subjects have been blackballed from public discussion in the broadcast media: sociology, psychology, ethics, morality, philosophy, and spirituality. The object is to shrink the intellectual sphere of all public debate down to such a degree it fits into two tiny, meaningless, bite-sized worldviews that require nothing more from the viewers than to distinguish the "blue oval" from the "red bowtie". Ergo, everyone begins to conflate "controversial" ideas with "Pxxxxxxxl" ideas, because they have simply never realized that all these extra dimensions in life even exist. "Pxxxxxxxl" is the default fast food hamburger of the public's intellectual diet.

You are still violating the rules of this forum with your political crapola. Please stop.

 

[bobabode]

Same, I've sent the emails.

I don't get any of those emails. I volunteer in a limited capacity at PoliticalChat. Talk to LuvvinVinyl.

 

[bobabode]

I've visit Political Chat periodically and have always found it to be one sided to the point that anyone offering a different point of view was definitely not welcome.

Several times I've thought to introduce subjects that could be enjoyed by all (the sort of thread that always end up closed here) but I haven't been able to sign in there for years.

Polical Chat adheres to freedom of speech to a reasonable point. As such, it's pretty rough and tumble at times. Some folk tend to wilt under pushback.

Have you tried Ernie's advice about re-setting your password? Let's get your account fixed.

 

[bobabode]

Let me offer a bit on insight on my motivation. I've been a member since '08 and started subscribing almost immediately. Besides the fact that this forum outshines every other audio forum that I've encountered, the boss here wants no part of political and/or religious discussion on his and Ms. Grumpy's forum.

That was the deciding factor on me subscribing. So, when anyone violates that rule, I feel they are cheating me by degrading AK.

Clear as mud, I'm sure...