Prefered Glue for surrounds

[OMI]

I have been using a combination of Aleene's Tacky Glue and Power Poxy contact cement.

http://www.powerpoxy.com/productDetail.asp?productID=461

"Cures and can be handled in about 1 hour, Full cure overnight,
Color: Ultra-Clear, Bond strength 4000 Lbs., Hardness: Rigid,
Waterproof: Yes, Flammable: No, Temp Range: -30F to 180F"

http://www.powerpoxy.com/index2.html

I had ordered a surround kit a long time back (I think from Simply Speakers) and they had sent 2 tubes of Power Poxy STIX-ON CONTACT as the glue. Works GREAT but you better get it right the first time as set time was less then a minute... I needed some more as I had 3 sets of woofers to reform and Wal-Mart was where I got the Power Poxy last time... None this time... Looked at the Power Poxy web site to see where else I might find it and they had a new line... and product.. SUPER CEMENT... Found it at Walgreen’s Drug Store….

"Cures and can be handled in about 6 hours, Full cure overnight,
Color: Crystal Clear, Bond strength 4000 Lbs., Hardness: Flexible,
Waterproof: Yes, Flammable: No (when dry), Temp Range: -30F to 250F"

http://www.powerpoxy.com/productDetail.asp?productID=464

This NEW stuff has about a 5 minute work time before it reeeeealy starts to hold so you have time to work any glitches out. The contact cement works great also, but you have almost zero time to work glitches out.

On my last set of speakers I got the hang of it with the SUPER CEMENT.... Trick was to place the glue and spread / level it out and not to use a lot...

You all might give it a try... The SUPER CEMENT....

 

[NADLUVER55]

I bought and used the $39.00 kit from Simply Speakers in Florida for my Bose 901 restoration and it did an excellent job.
Granted, it was my first re-foam job, but as a novice at re-foaming I am quite happy with the glue supplied along with the kit. That along with the guide and a little help from you guys made it an actual joy to use. The speakers rock as well! Plenty of bass for me, and the suckers are crystal clear compared to my ADS 730's. Thanks guys!
Dan

 

[NADLUVER55]

Photoman, the new foam surrounds are expected to have a life expectancy of from ten to twenty years depending upon the care given them. I.E. inside use as opposed to outside use, humidity, smoke, dirt, etc. as well as not driving them to the point of clipping which is death to ANY speaker system, old or new.

 

[slackers]

Just want to throw this out there... I was out searching for some glue the other day, and came across Liquid Nails Perfect Glue 1 at Home Depot. From the description, it seemed almost tailor-made for refoaming speakers.

Granted, it was my first time replacing surrounds, but it worked great. Had a good 10 minutes or so to reposition.

 

[MrGee]

i am not doing the shim way cause i was told not to do it. I am going to think about changing the dust caps cause the guy selling them said that are a bit beat up

Foolish move.
If they hit once, you are all done.
Not not not worth the risk when shimming them is a sure thing and poses just about zero risk. If you are changing the dust caps even MORE of a no brainer to shim them.
Whoever told you not to shim them is wrong.
If you ask any company that does this...without the actual jig for the specific driver...do they use shims? They will answer "YES we use the shims!"

 

[dc270]

Correct MrGee- shimming the voice coil does little to center them but more to keeping them verticle to the pole piece which is very important!
DC

 

[Windwalker]

So was reading the post over at MSOUND

and the caption for picc 19-21 says
...."USING THE SHORT BRUSH, SPREAD THIS BEAD AROUND THE INNER EDGE OF THE SURROUND. SPREAD THE GLUE UP TO THE ROLL OF THE SURROUND... DO NOT GLUE THE ROLL! (Fig 20) YOU ONLY WANT TO TREAT THE CONE EDGE AND SURROUND EDGE. THIS WILL ALLOW SOUND WAVES TO MAKE A NICE TRANSITION OFF THE EDGE OF THE CONE.
ALLOW THE GLUE TO DRY.

THE ADHESIVE IS ALSO A CONE TREATMENT... HELPING TO COUNTERACT WEAKNESS DUE TO AGE OR MOISTURE.

HMMM I've never done this part before, is it "standard" practice?
I've heard of dressing the surrounds before and some of the worn out old ones has had a bead of for lack of better description-a bead of silicon caulking run around the surround. Me knowing that I could never hope to get this where it would look correct, have taken a pass on it

So, paint em or not?
and if so is helpful to use a drop or two of Aqua?
Normally use Aleens's tacky(silver)

 

[Joe G]

I have a story to tell everyone who does their own surrounds. many years ago, i had my jbl t545 reconed at orange county speaker for a blown coil. i didnt know that the recone kits were available to anyone. so i paid them to do it. anyway, instead of using the tube of glue that came with the kit, he used his glue. they buy it bulk in cans. anyway the foam on that speaker has since decayed to dust, while the one I did myself with the included glue remains intact. so you must use a glue that is inert. Now they use a white glue, i think it may be latex based. speakerrepair.com has glue specifically for foam surround.

 

[Joe G]

About shimming. some speakers you can not shim, like the JBL LE8th. the dome is actually part of the voice coil. cutting it off will ruin the speaker. it may still work after, but the full range freq resp will be forever lost. this one is like a tweeter diaphram, not a dust cap. my rule is. if the spider cone is large enough, you can usually replace the foam without shimming. if there is a replacement dust cap that matches the original one, and ths spider cone is small, then you probably should shim the coil.

 

[GENXVINTAGE]

WELDBOND is the way to go, unless you are gluing to polyproplene cones or rubber surrounds, then the best thing

 

[GENXVINTAGE]

WELDBOND is the way to go, unless you are gluing to polyproplene cones or rubber surrounds, and then the best thing I found to use is 3m Scotch-grip 4693 H Plastic adhesive!!

 

[edgewound]

Foolish move.
If they hit once, you are all done.
Not not not worth the risk when shimming them is a sure thing and poses just about zero risk. If you are changing the dust caps even MORE of a no brainer to shim them.
Whoever told you not to shim them is wrong.
If you ask any company that does this...without the actual jig for the specific driver...do they use shims? They will answer "YES we use the shims!"

That's not entirely true.

If the coil hit the top plate the first time the surround fell apart, it wouldn't be repairable, if that was the case.

I replace surrounds all the time with no shim. Usually these are drivers that haven't been used to the extreme excursion with no coil former damage. Dynamically centered voice coils with a new surround and original dust cap tend to look less like a repair. Especially on vintage JBL drivers. If the speaker has been been thrashed, then it's best to just recone it with a factory kit.

If the kit is NLA and the cone and coil are still good but the surround and spider are useless, then it can be re-suspended, with new spider and surround. This will beat an aftermarket in that the coil and cone are still OEM with OEM cosmetics.....though the spider and surround will be aftermarket.

Anyway...each repair has it's own best solution. The best solution makes it retain it's appearance and performance.

 

[edgewound]

About shimming. some speakers you can not shim, like the JBL LE8th. the dome is actually part of the voice coil. cutting it off will ruin the speaker. it may still work after, but the full range freq resp will be forever lost. this one is like a tweeter diaphram, not a dust cap. my rule is. if the spider cone is large enough, you can usually replace the foam without shimming. if there is a replacement dust cap that matches the original one, and ths spider cone is small, then you probably should shim the coil.

The aluminum dome in a JBL LE8-T is glued to the top of the coil just like any other JBL aluminum cap...it's separate from the coil but does act as a radiator for high frequencies. It has a short aluminum wire coil in a deep gap.

Refoaming this driver is best with the cap in place, but the problem is the tight tolerance. Your LE surround has to fit the frame/cone right or you'll have a rub. It's possible to replace the dome, and do it right....it just takes a lot of very careful surgery or you'll pull the Aquaplas off the cone....and then you have to get a nice glue bead on the new dome.

 

[Zilch]

Hi, Edge :thmbsp:

For a period of time, LE14A recone kits were NLA, but we could still get LE14H-1 kits, and I reconed a pair of LE14As with those.

Subsequently, LE14A kits became available again, and I documented the differences visually here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17597.

How badly have I messed up?

 

[toxcrusadr]

I've been wondering how well we're going to be able to get this Aleen's glue off in 10 or 20 years. It dries pretty much like white glue.

I've refoamed a woofer or two that had a clear rubbery adhesive almost like rubber cement only much more durable and lasting. You could peel up an end and start pulling and take the whole thing off in one swoop. THAT would be a nice glue for refoaming, so the next bloke who has to do it isn't cursing us.

I'm not familiar with some of the products mentioned here, does anyone recognize the stuff I'm talking about and is there anything like it?

 

[edgewound]

Hi Zilch,

I won't finger wag at you.

Measure the distance from the the center of the voice coil winding to the spider's mounting lip on both recone assemblies....that will give you an idea of the offset difference between the two cone assemblies.

These drivers aren't meant to be interchangeable with recone kits.

Hi, Edge :thmbsp:

For a period of time, LE14A recone kits were NLA, but we could still get LE14H-1 kits, and I reconed a pair of LE14As with those.

Subsequently, LE14A kits became available again, and I documented the differences visually here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=17597.

How badly have I messed up?

 

[outlawmws]

I've been wondering how well we're going to be able to get this Aleen's glue off in 10 or 20 years. It dries pretty much like white glue. SNIP

I don't think it is an issue, most white glues are water soluble, and Aleene’s is one of the few that retains some elasticity. I have a sample I made tests with several years ago now and it’s still flexible, (Elmer’s was hard as a rock as soon as cured) so I suspect it will be as easy or easier to remove.

Also the old foam surrounds lasted 10-15 years, the new ones should last a lot longer, as they fixed the formula so rot per se should not be the issue it is today.

 

[Zilch]

Measure the distance from the the center of the voice coil winding to the spider's mounting lip on both recone assemblies....that will give you an idea of the offset difference between the two cone assemblies.

From measuring the images, they appear to be "close." I'll confirm that with actual physical measurements.

If that's the case, then it comes down to gap depth and design overhang, presumably.

They play fine, BTW, and I've never bottomed them out, though they're not doing sub duty right now.

Does LE14H-1 have progressive compliance like 2235H?

 

[toxcrusadr]

I don't think it is an issue, most white glues are water soluble, and Aleene’s is one of the few that retains some elasticity. I have a sample I made tests with several years ago now and it’s still flexible, (Elmer’s was hard as a rock as soon as cured) so I suspect it will be as easy or easier to remove.

How exactly? Are you implying it should be soaked off with water? That doesn't seem feasible. And it seems hard enough that scraping it off with a razor knife could easily damage the cone. :scratch2:

 

[mgman]

automotive weather stripping adhesive works excellent for bonding surrounds and spiders