Random Thoughts or Whatever

[init4fun]

Simple Physics is gonna bring a quick reality check to this my Friend......

I'll just leave this here & quietly back away;


"Mounting a generator to an electric car's wheels to charge batteries while driving is impossible due to the law of conservation of energy and losses from friction/heat. The energy required to turn the generator creates drag, demanding more power from the battery than the generator creates, resulting in a net energy loss.

Key Reasons Why This Doesn't Work:

• Energy Inefficiency: A generator does not create energy; it converts it. Turning a generator creates significant resistance (load) on the wheels, meaning the electric motor must work harder to propel the car, consuming more battery energy than the generator recovers.
• Net Energy Loss: According to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, every energy conversion process produces heat, friction, and noise. The system loses energy at each step (battery to motor, motor to wheel, wheel to generator, generator back to battery).
• Perpetual Motion Myth: Proposing this system is equivalent to designing a perpetual motion machine, which is forbidden by the laws of physics."

 

[Ellymay]

Or put a miniature version of these on the car top.

 

[Bill Ferris]

Simple Physics is gonna bring a quick reality check to this my Friend......

I'll just leave this here & quietly back away;


"Mounting a generator to an electric car's wheels to charge batteries while driving is impossible due to the law of conservation of energy and losses from friction/heat. The energy required to turn the generator creates drag, demanding more power from the battery than the generator creates, resulting in a net energy loss.

Key Reasons Why This Doesn't Work:

• Energy Inefficiency: A generator does not create energy; it converts it. Turning a generator creates significant resistance (load) on the wheels, meaning the electric motor must work harder to propel the car, consuming more battery energy than the generator recovers.
• Net Energy Loss: According to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, every energy conversion process produces heat, friction, and noise. The system loses energy at each step (battery to motor, motor to wheel, wheel to generator, generator back to battery).
• Perpetual Motion Myth: Proposing this system is equivalent to designing a perpetual motion machine, which is forbidden by the laws of physics."

Most correct, Sir., thank you for saving me from my awkward 1 finger typing effort to counter to that lossless energy transformation`s fantasy subject`s post responding, as you so thoroughly did, init4fun.

 

[SuperjazzyJa]

Simple Physics is gonna bring a quick reality check to this my Friend......

I'll just leave this here & quietly back away;


"Mounting a generator to an electric car's wheels to charge batteries while driving is impossible due to the law of conservation of energy and losses from friction/heat. The energy required to turn the generator creates drag, demanding more power from the battery than the generator creates, resulting in a net energy loss.

Key Reasons Why This Doesn't Work:

• Energy Inefficiency: A generator does not create energy; it converts it. Turning a generator creates significant resistance (load) on the wheels, meaning the electric motor must work harder to propel the car, consuming more battery energy than the generator recovers.
• Net Energy Loss: According to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, every energy conversion process produces heat, friction, and noise. The system loses energy at each step (battery to motor, motor to wheel, wheel to generator, generator back to battery).
• Perpetual Motion Myth: Proposing this system is equivalent to designing a perpetual motion machine, which is forbidden by the laws of physics."

Most correct, Sir., thank you for saving me from my awkward 1 finger typing effort to counter to that lossless energy transformation`s fantasy subject`s post responding, as you so thoroughly did, init4fun.

Granted, the way it's being done in the picture wouldn't work. However, it's entirely possible to put solar panels on EVs. There are also ways to turn a generator while the vehicle is moving. It would require a set of reduction gears, possibly even planetary gears. A friend of mine gave me a partial explanation that he used with his electric bicycle. Unfortunately, he no longer has the bike or I would take pictures and post them. He used a planetary gear set that switched as the speed of the bike increased. Even then, it was reduced, but turning enough to charge. He tried it without the PGs and too much drag to accelerate. It's not a matter of accepting the laws of physics as "no, it can't be done", but rather finding new ways to work within the laws of physics.

Yes, I know. The car pic was a bad example. I just ran across and posted. Sorry for not explaining more before posting.

 

[Bill Ferris]

Granted, the way it's being done in the picture wouldn't work. However, it's entirely possible to put solar panels on EVs. There are also ways to turn a generator while the vehicle is moving. It would require a set of reduction gears, possibly even planetary gears. A friend of mine gave me a partial explanation that he used with his electric bicycle. Unfortunately, he no longer has the bike or I would take pictures and post them. He used a planetary gear set that switched as the speed of the bike increased. Even then, it was reduced, but turning enough to charge. He tried it without the PGs and too much drag to accelerate. It's not a matter of accepting the laws of physics as "no, it can't be done", but rather finding new ways to work within the laws of physics.

Yes, I know. The car pic was a bad example. I just ran across and posted. Sorry for not explaining more before posting.

All is good S,J,J, just there is always going to be losses in transferring energy, and in this case electrical, from one form to another, until practical super conductors use in electrical generators & motors become a reality !

All types of mechanical gears, belt, chain drives have various levels of friction, thus energy transfer loss through them, some less than other types, but there will always be measurably less energy available at the output than the inputting energy source, or true perpetual motion machines would exist !

Even the best current PV (AKA solar) panels are far from highly efficient, granted their better now, than some yrs. back, but are very expensive.

 

[old_tv_nut]

... and light-headed-ness.

Thomas Edison was light-headed.

 

[SuperjazzyJa]

All is good S,J,J, just there is always going to be losses in transferring energy, and in this case electrical, from one form to another, until practical super conductors use in electrical generators & motors become a reality !

All types of mechanical gears, belt, chain drives have various levels of friction, thus energy transfer loss through them, some less than other types, but there will always be measurably less energy available at the output than the inputting energy source, or true perpetual motion machines would exist !

Even the best current PV (AKA solar) panels are far from highly efficient, granted their better now, than some yrs. back, but are very expensive.

That's true, but at the same time, there are ways to do what was thought impossible. Unfortunately, I don't always word things the best way possible. My friend's bike went roughly twice as far with the "generator" than without it. Thankfully, I was able to reach out to him today after my last post since some details escaped my memory. He was using an alternator out of pickup truck. Even with a load, they turn more easily than a typical DC gen. For those who don't know, a conventional alternator is a 3 phase AC gen with a 6 diode bridge. Anyway, he and I were trying to figure out how to make it go farther. Then a guy offered to buy the bike the way it was. It was an offer he couldn't refuse.

Yes, the solar panel has a long way to go. I would be in favor of using a gen with a set of panels together on an EV.

 

[Dmartn149]

Since first becoming aware of the Tesla, most of my friends and I have been wondering why this wasn't being done.

View attachment 3738052

So, why does the consumer have to add the generator? Greed! You get charged to charge. Onboard generator? The electricity is free!

Pretty sure EVERY electric car has a version of this. It's called regeneration. It's used while coasting or braking.

 

[Mystic]

Thomas Edison was light-headed.

Touche !

 

[init4fun]

Pretty sure EVERY electric car has a version of this. It's called regeneration. It's used while coasting or braking.

Right.

And this does return a SMALL amount of charge to the battery.

BUT!

regeneration is not what was proposed in post #7260, which was claiming that the generator would totally eliminate the need for charging an electric car's batteries

 

[Dmartn149]

Right.

And this does return a SMALL amount of charge to the battery.

BUT!

regeneration is not what was proposed in post #7260, which was claiming that the generator would totally eliminate the need for charging an electric car's batteries

View attachment 3738766

Right, but we know that it doesn't work under load. As you explained above.

 

[SuperjazzyJa]

Right, but we know that it doesn't work under load. As you explained above.

I spent some time pondering this while taking a walk last night. I came to the conclusion that if anyone ever finds a way to generate electricity with the friction reduced to the point that it's as close to perpetual motion as possible, it probably won't happen in most of our lifetime. Maybe gen z's grandkids might see something like it.

So the next thought is, what about 2 or more batteries in car? What if the car runs on batt 1 until it gets down around 20%, then automatically switches to batt 2. At this point, the gen is engaged and chargee batt 1. Then, the questions are, will batt finish charging by the time batt 2 gets down to 20%? Will the 2 batteries be light enough in relation to motor power to avoid accessive drain while maintaining a reliable level of quality? How many batteries will be necessary to keep going?

Well, I think that's enough rambling from this crazy old man.

 

[Mystic]

 

[Quadman2]

View attachment 3740097

There was a time (mid 1940's) wherein a scientist (Oppenheimer) was concerned that the oxygen in the atmosphere might catch fire, and doom the World. So he went to two outside sources, and one of the physicists on board, in the making of the first atomic bomb and was assured that this would not happen. But, I'll bet he and others still had their fingers crossed...just in case.

Your share, Mys, made me think of this past "worry" re. "fire" and the use of it.

Q

 

[init4fun]

Is Oxygen Flammable?

 

[SolderIron]

Simple Physics is gonna bring a quick reality check to this my Friend......

I'll just leave this here & quietly back away;


"Mounting a generator to an electric car's wheels to charge batteries while driving is impossible due to the law of conservation of energy and losses from friction/heat. The energy required to turn the generator creates drag, demanding more power from the battery than the generator creates, resulting in a net energy loss.

Key Reasons Why This Doesn't Work:

• Energy Inefficiency: A generator does not create energy; it converts it. Turning a generator creates significant resistance (load) on the wheels, meaning the electric motor must work harder to propel the car, consuming more battery energy than the generator recovers.
• Net Energy Loss: According to the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, every energy conversion process produces heat, friction, and noise. The system loses energy at each step (battery to motor, motor to wheel, wheel to generator, generator back to battery).
• Perpetual Motion Myth: Proposing this system is equivalent to designing a perpetual motion machine, which is forbidden by the laws of physics."

Enable it only at braking to recovers wasted energy. A net gain at going down hill....
Not worth the cost for such small return.

 

[old_tv_nut]

Enable it only at braking to recovers wasted energy. A net gain at going down hill....
Not worth the cost for such small return.

For something that DOES work, I will note that there is a mine located up a mountain (In Europe somewhere? I forget.) that uses electric trucks to bring the ore down the mountain. Due to regenerative braking when coming down full, they keep the batteries charged for the empty trip back up without using any outside power. The neat thing is that they won't run out of power until they run out of ore.

 

[SolderIron]

The right way, wrong way, and the wipe way

MSN

 

[Mystic]

DAY ONE OF SOMETHING

 

[Mystic]

^^^ MOOD(S) ^^^