PAYUPSKI
Well-Known Member
I'm glad to hear you're not leaving good ol Brooklyn. Give me a call if you need help with the move. All the best!!
REVIEW: Dual 1219 rebuild by NoTransistors
- Thread starter beatcomber
- Start date
I'm glad to hear you're not leaving good ol Brooklyn. Give me a call if you need help with the move. All the best!!
Wow! Full time!
Good luck with the move! Fixing Duals full time! Priceless! Sounds like fun.
Eric
Good luck with the move! Fixing Duals full time! Priceless! Sounds like fun.
Eric
DaveyW
Well-Known Member
Great to read of your enjoyment of your latest Dual BC :yes:
And too of your satisfaction with NoTransistors' handiwork :thmbsp:
My 1219 is still proudly sitting alongside the Sondek and gets plenty of use
Interestingly we're running similar carts - in my case a Shure M97xE with JICO SAS
Shamed the Dual is most certainly not, even with the Linn running a Denon DL-S1
The 1219/Shure/SAS combo has made a few of my local Hi-Fi buddies sit up and pay attention
Keep on enjoying
And too of your satisfaction with NoTransistors' handiwork :thmbsp:
My 1219 is still proudly sitting alongside the Sondek and gets plenty of use
Interestingly we're running similar carts - in my case a Shure M97xE with JICO SAS
Shamed the Dual is most certainly not, even with the Linn running a Denon DL-S1
The 1219/Shure/SAS combo has made a few of my local Hi-Fi buddies sit up and pay attention
Keep on enjoying
beatcomber
AK Member
Ah, I see you've replaced the Ortofon! I love the look of the European plinth from Dual.
Incidentally, I initially tried using my (stock) M97xE on the 1219, and it sounded OK, but just too darn cloudy.
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
I will be taking out a $200,000 mortgage, and will not be able to pay it back by soaking up rays in the pool.
So, yes, I will be working hard on your turntables. Your patronage is very much appreciated.
Seth
So, yes, I will be working hard on your turntables. Your patronage is very much appreciated.
Seth
beatcomber
AK Member
After a week listening exclusively to the 1219 (and thoroughly enjoying it), I put the TD-124/SME 3009 S2 back into the system last night, so now I feel I have a fresh perspective on both tables' relative strengths and characteristics.
I'm sure that some of you were hoping to hear that the 1219 bettered the TD-124 (I must admit that part of me was rooting for the underdog too), but the TD-124 is unquestionably the better performer - as it should be, considering that a 1219 in restored condition fetches no more than around $450 and I have over $2000 invested in the TD-124, SME arm, plinth, and cartridge/stylus.
Compared to the Dual, the Thorens offers considerably more nuance and delicacy. Music is presented with numerous unfolding layers of depth that requires a decently resolving system to reveal. It has terrific rhythmic drive, but it is more of a toe-tapping bounce than a hard slam. The emotion of the music is coaxed from every groove.
That is not to say that the Dual doesn't have its own strengths relative to the Thorens. As is often noted, the Dual produces a wonderfully bold, driving, thick character. Snare hits are like ballpean hammers and orchestral blasts are positively explosive, which makes for a very exciting, edge of your seat listening experience. After sitting up and listening to Ella Fitzgerald scatting her way through chorus after chorus of "Mack the Knife," backed by the powerful Duke Ellington Orchestra on full-tilt at Côte d'Azur '66, I nearly jumped out of my chair and applauded! In other words, the 1219 is heckuva lotta fun.
As I stated earlier, I feel that one would have to spend upwards of $1200 for a new turntable to match or surpass the performance of a Dual 1219 in top operating condition, and probably sacrifice the convenience of fully automatic operation, easy cartridge swap-ability, and the bonus of 78 speed capability.
It's worth noting that the Thorens/SME is sporting a Shure V-15 Type III (generally considered one of the finest MM cartridges ever) with a JICO SAS stylus, and the Dual has a more midline-but-still-excellent Shure M91ED, also with an SAS stylus. The two carts are not at all equal. I wish I could level the playing field and evaluate the Dual with a V-15 III, but that is just not practical. I suspect that with a V-15 III/SAS the Dual's performance level would be closer to that of the TD-124.
:thmbsp:
I'm sure that some of you were hoping to hear that the 1219 bettered the TD-124 (I must admit that part of me was rooting for the underdog too), but the TD-124 is unquestionably the better performer - as it should be, considering that a 1219 in restored condition fetches no more than around $450 and I have over $2000 invested in the TD-124, SME arm, plinth, and cartridge/stylus.
Compared to the Dual, the Thorens offers considerably more nuance and delicacy. Music is presented with numerous unfolding layers of depth that requires a decently resolving system to reveal. It has terrific rhythmic drive, but it is more of a toe-tapping bounce than a hard slam. The emotion of the music is coaxed from every groove.
That is not to say that the Dual doesn't have its own strengths relative to the Thorens. As is often noted, the Dual produces a wonderfully bold, driving, thick character. Snare hits are like ballpean hammers and orchestral blasts are positively explosive, which makes for a very exciting, edge of your seat listening experience. After sitting up and listening to Ella Fitzgerald scatting her way through chorus after chorus of "Mack the Knife," backed by the powerful Duke Ellington Orchestra on full-tilt at Côte d'Azur '66, I nearly jumped out of my chair and applauded! In other words, the 1219 is heckuva lotta fun.
As I stated earlier, I feel that one would have to spend upwards of $1200 for a new turntable to match or surpass the performance of a Dual 1219 in top operating condition, and probably sacrifice the convenience of fully automatic operation, easy cartridge swap-ability, and the bonus of 78 speed capability.
It's worth noting that the Thorens/SME is sporting a Shure V-15 Type III (generally considered one of the finest MM cartridges ever) with a JICO SAS stylus, and the Dual has a more midline-but-still-excellent Shure M91ED, also with an SAS stylus. The two carts are not at all equal. I wish I could level the playing field and evaluate the Dual with a V-15 III, but that is just not practical. I suspect that with a V-15 III/SAS the Dual's performance level would be closer to that of the TD-124.
:thmbsp:
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ssmith3046
Super Member
Good stuff! I use a Shure V-15 III DU cartridges with the Jico SAS on my Dual 701 and 1229Q turntables. The V-15 III's and Duals are really a wonderful mix, hence the DU III. Even though I love Duals I'm not sure they could ever match your TD-124, no matter what the cartridge is.
bobins08
Celebrating Life
Another informative review. :thmbsp:
If I ever try an idler it sounds to me like the 1219/1229 is a good place to start. Especially given the prices for the 124.
Two summers ago I blew a chance to pick up a 1229 for only $60. It needed some work (it would not shut off without pulling the plug, and the left channel was intermitttant) but I could have fixed it. Oh well. You never know what you find in this hobby.
Cheers, Bob
Awhile back I was able to acquire a Grace F9E cart, as well as a Grado F1+, which I outfitted with a 8MZ stylus. I have been rotating both on my Dual 1019 and the sound of both of them, especially the Grace, have been breathtaking. I'm a huge fan of Shure carts, but honestly(and yet not surprisingly) they have all(including the V15III...not a favorite of mine, prefer the M91ED and M55E) have been essentially left in the dust. I know the Grace is impossible to find and very pricey but the 8MZ can be had for $100 and fitted on a number of Grado carts. Obviously, a lot of info about it here on AK. I know Beatcomber owns one and is a big fan.
Anyway, I don't know if these would match the TD-124 as I've never heard one, but I bet it would get you closer.
lini
just me...
Seth: Good luck with the full-time business - and may nothing be lost or damaged during the move you don't want to be lost or ruined. 
And a remark about the (majority of the) Dual hifi arms: Imo these are often underestimated, because most look somewhat flimsy, and I'd also admit that the two proprietary ULM mount designs weren't the smartest idea from today's perspective, just as gold rather than silver plated contacts in the carrier-plate/headshell interface of the pre-ULM arms would have been a better idea - but that aside both technical design and choice of materials were pretty good, so that one would have to invest quite a bit to get an arm that doesn't only look, but also is technically better. For example, the two 3rd gen. ULM arms on my own Duals don't seem to do any worse than my Grace G707 did...
And Dualfred has already done quite a few more arm comparisons, foremost on his own Langer #7 direct drive (http://www.langer-audio.de/index.html - and according to him the Dual OPS arm he also tried did just as well as for example a SME series III, a Jelco SA-750D and one of the higher-ranking Regas (RB700? 900?)...
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
And a remark about the (majority of the) Dual hifi arms: Imo these are often underestimated, because most look somewhat flimsy, and I'd also admit that the two proprietary ULM mount designs weren't the smartest idea from today's perspective, just as gold rather than silver plated contacts in the carrier-plate/headshell interface of the pre-ULM arms would have been a better idea - but that aside both technical design and choice of materials were pretty good, so that one would have to invest quite a bit to get an arm that doesn't only look, but also is technically better. For example, the two 3rd gen. ULM arms on my own Duals don't seem to do any worse than my Grace G707 did...
And Dualfred has already done quite a few more arm comparisons, foremost on his own Langer #7 direct drive (http://www.langer-audio.de/index.html - and according to him the Dual OPS arm he also tried did just as well as for example a SME series III, a Jelco SA-750D and one of the higher-ranking Regas (RB700? 900?)...
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
beatcomber
AK Member
Absolutely! Buy one cheap and send it off to Seth.
I have a spare Grado (a ZC+) with an 8MZ stylus basically collecting dust. At some point in the near future I'd like to get another 1219 headshell and see how I like the Grado with the Dual.
Incidentally, now that I know that Duals are inherently rumble-y like the 1019s I had before, I can imagine how large and exciting your Dual must sound with the Cornwalls.
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I really don't get rumble from my 1019 at normal, or slightly above normal listening levels. Have to get it pretty loud to detect rumble, and only then between the music.
Yeah, music really does jump out of the Cornwalls when using the 1019, and these new cartridge options have raised the bar a notch or 2. Running it through the Fisher 400, well, pretty much a perfect match that produces perfect sound all the way around.
beatcomber
AK Member
Yes, that is my experience with this new-to-me 1219. Too bad the 1019's I had before weren't up to par.
:tresbon:
sxty8goats
Super Member
I've been away too long. Looks like your SL1200 has moved on to another owner. Which table replaced it?
I used to know NoTransistors on another board. He is/was a fellow GTO owner. Great to see him so well regarded here.
I used to know NoTransistors on another board. He is/was a fellow GTO owner. Great to see him so well regarded here.
beatcomber
AK Member
NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
Thank you Eric and Manfred.
I can't get rich fixing these things, but considering the positive reviews posted here, I should be able to pay my bills. I do seem to have a unique talent for repairing mechanical things.
chewie
From Beyond The Mysterious Beyond
If I lived closer to him, I would have him service my Dual 1219. He's given me some great tips/tweaks, though.
Someone mentioned a counter weight tip/tweak. What is that one?
sxty8goats
Super Member
That is a beaut Glen.
beatcomber
AK Member
Thanks! You need to come over and have a listen sometime!