SAS Cantilevers: Boron vs Sapphire vs Ruby

[luckybaer]

The price of the JICO SAS/R was only $19 more than the SAS/S, and $73 more than the SAS/B as of 12/7/20. Since I already have an SAS/B, I went with the SAS/R. The SAS/R cantilever is tapered, lowering the moving mass, whereas the SAS/S is not. I doubt I'll be able to notice a difference, but at "only" a $19 premium over the SAS/S, I opted for the SAS/R. I can't wait to give it a try!

FWIW, I have a Shure V15 Type III cartridge...

 

[Final_Baton]

Where does beryllium fit in all of this? I'm curious. my previous cart had a boron canti, and my current one has a berrylium one. I really like it, I might get it retipped when stylus worn (if it's safe for the technician, I know that ground berrylium can be toxic but maybe it can be done safely with proper measures?) or worst case I'll buy another stylus of the same.

 

[Studio_D]

I have the Boron SAS on a Shure V15 IV and it is my favorite cartridge.

I read the analysis and measurements posted by dlaloum some time ago showing how Jico's boron cantilever had a resonance peak in the 16kHz range which led to an emphasized frequency response in the high end. He surmised that the V15 IV would be less susceptible to this effect than the V15 V due to its higher inductance, but I don't recall seeing measurements to back up his theory so perhaps he didn't test it. Have you noticed a peak in the upper octave of your V15 IV with the boron SAS?

Where does beryllium fit in all of this? I'm curious. my previous cart had a boron canti, and my current one has a berrylium one. I really like it, I might get it retipped when stylus worn (if it's safe for the technician, I know that ground berrylium can be toxic but maybe it can be done safely with proper measures?) or worst case I'll buy another stylus of the same.

I thought stylus makers stopped using beryllium in the '80s or early '90s and that's why we have boron substitutions now.

 

[Final_Baton]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
yes it's a vintage stylus

 

[lini]

Where does beryllium fit in all of this?

Even lighter than boron, but not quite as hard/rigid. A comparably good material for cantilevers, I'd say. Should be easier to make beryllium than boron tubes, though.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[MellowVelo]

The price of the JICO SAS/R was only $19 more than the SAS/S, and $73 more than the SAS/B as of 12/7/20. Since I already have an SAS/B, I went with the SAS/R. The SAS/R cantilever is tapered, lowering the moving mass, whereas the SAS/S is not. I doubt I'll be able to notice a difference, but at "only" a $19 premium over the SAS/S, I opted for the SAS/R. I can't wait to give it a try!

FWIW, I have a Shure V15 Type III cartridge...

I've been considering a JICO SAS stylus for the Shure V15 Type III. Were you able to compare the boron and ruby models? I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!

 

[warrjon]

I don't have a V15 but I do have a Technics EPC205mk2 and both Jico SAS/B and SAS/R, the SAS/R is significantly better than the boron in detail retrieval. Having said that your system would need to be capable of the additional resolution and if I'd never heard the ruby the SAS/B is still very good.

 

[MellowVelo]

I don't have a V15 but I do have a Technics EPC205mk2 and both Jico SAS/B and SAS/R, the SAS/R is significantly better than the boron in detail retrieval. Having said that your system would need to be capable of the additional resolution and if I'd never heard the ruby the SAS/B is still very good.

Thank you! This is very helpful. My system is capable of the additional resolution, so the ruby sounds intriguing. In your experience, is the ruby more difficult to align properly than the boron? I remember reading some posts which said that the ruby stylus is very sensitive to VTA. My turntable (Dual 701) does not have VTA adjustment. Is this something that I should be concerned about?

 

[dlaloum]

I read the analysis and measurements posted by dlaloum some time ago showing how Jico's boron cantilever had a resonance peak in the 16kHz range which led to an emphasized frequency response in the high end. He surmised that the V15 IV would be less susceptible to this effect than the V15 V due to its higher inductance, but I don't recall seeing measurements to back up his theory so perhaps he didn't test it. Have you noticed a peak in the upper octave of your V15 IV with the boron SAS?



I thought stylus makers stopped using beryllium in the '80s or early '90s and that's why we have boron substitutions now.

Don't have a matching V15IV and Jico stylus to test!

I would be interested in finding out what the high frequency resonance of the new R and S styli are - based in the physics, the lighter the cantilever, the higher the resonant frequency (all else being equal... which assumes the back end suspension design remains the same).... a shift in the resonance would mean needing to adjust loading (or opting for differing cartridge inductance) - to maintain a relatively flat frequency response...

In a perfect world, a tapered ruby cantilever, without a gob of (weighty) epoxy on the end, sounds good.... but whether in practice it achieves lower tip mass.... that would need to be measured!

 

[warrjon]

I don't worry about VTA I set SRA, and there is no difference in the sensitivity of SRA between the B and R versions as they both have SAS diamonds.The B does have a huge dollop of glue to hold the diamond in that the R doesn't so moment of inertia is lower in the R which is why it's better in detail retrieval.

These are pics of my EPC205 SAS/B and SAS/R

 

[LP-THORN]

As cantilever is not the only part (alone) in the game, but also suspension wire and damper, I think or believe manufacturers take that seriously in mind in order to achieve all parts to work in harmony and get the result they want. The above in combination with the chosen tracking force seems to be the complete story to me. And then, is the electrical part too.
Or, I may be wrong .

 

[T68]

No SAS love for ADC cartridges from Jico?

 

[dlaloum]

I don't worry about VTA I set SRA, and there is no difference in the sensitivity of SRA between the B and R versions as they both have SAS diamonds.The B does have a huge dollop of glue to hold the diamond in that the R doesn't so moment of inertia is lower in the R which is why it's better in detail retrieval.

These are pics of my EPC205 SAS/B and SAS/R

View attachment 2388462 View attachment 2388463

When you look at the overall length of the Ruby cantilever, where does it begin to taper? is it mostly straight and then tapers right at the end before the needle? or does the taper begin somewhere near the start of the cantilever? (mass distribution is important!)

Also, before it begins to taper, is the diameter about the same as the saphire and boron cantilevers? (or more? less?)

thanks

 

[cafe latte]

I don't worry about VTA I set SRA, and there is no difference in the sensitivity of SRA between the B and R versions as they both have SAS diamonds.The B does have a huge dollop of glue to hold the diamond in that the R doesn't so moment of inertia is lower in the R which is why it's better in detail retrieval.

These are pics of my EPC205 SAS/B and SAS/R

View attachment 2388462 View attachment 2388463

The glue weighs next to nothing and the boron has a much shorter diamond which is much lighter.
Ruby cantilever is almost twice as heavy so a tiny bit of glue on the boron is nothing in the big picture the moving mass of the ruby is way more.
Chris

 

[warrjon]

The CL is square and tapers from the suspension. I have no idea of the diameter.

I performed squarewave tests on both with the same cartridge, rise time SAS/R is 10us and SAS/B 18us, this indicates that the SAS/R has less inertia than the SAS/B.

 

[SterlingOne]

I have a very dynamic LP, Classic Hauser. I use it as well as FLAC, AAC, and CD versions of the album to compare, contrast, and evaluate my means to recorded music. So far my experimentation suggests my Shure V15 type III/JICO SAS-B running on my Technics SL-1210GR amplified by a Parasound P6 to Sony TA-N9000ES delivers the most compelling performance from all mediums in all manner performance can be appreciated. In other words, not only does the the SAS-B complement LP pleasure, it also rivals or betters other means to recorded music I have at hand.

 

[Ken Boyd]

I would think that different materials use

How many times can you bounce a ruby off a record before it breaks?

Who the hell bounces their carts off records? If they do, they deserve it to break.

 

[mkane]

I have haven't you? Aluminum can, a few times.

 

[cafe latte]

The CL is square and tapers from the suspension. I have no idea of the diameter.

I performed squarewave tests on both with the same cartridge, rise time SAS/R is 10us and SAS/B 18us, this indicates that the SAS/R has less inertia than the SAS/B.

All it says is the suspensions are not the same or the stylus are not the same length or both.
Chris

 

[cafe latte]

I would think that different materials use


Who the hell bounces their carts off records? If they do, they deserve it to break.

We all slip occasionally and with ruby you do get away with it but boron you usually do. I get quite a lot of ruby to retip as they are broken, but very few boron to retip broken.
Chris