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SAS Cantilevers: Boron vs Sapphire vs Ruby

I have used the SAS/Boron for more than a year in my Shure V15/IV..... Loved it from the first play..... recently purchased the SAS/Sapphire..... I love it even more... I believe that I heard bass improved on the first record I played..... I have never heard better clarity and definition .... wish it was cheaper ;-)

*Note... we have to all remember that we can fool ourselves into believing that there is improvement when there actually may be none.
My Soundsmith Boheme has a ruby cantilever with line contact diamond......... it sounds great too!!
 
We all slip occasionally and with ruby you do get away with it but boron you usually do. I get quite a lot of ruby to retip as they are broken, but very few boron to retip broken.
Chris
That's what I was driving at thanks.
 
Can't say I ever bounce stylus. Maybe it could be due to to much drinking.
Maybe you dont need to be rude to be rude to people... Not everyone drink and as my grandad used to say, "He who never made a mistake never made anything".. I stuff up it is life, not often but it happens, and I think grandad was right.
Chris
 
My 103M has the usual Denon tapered alloy cantilever. The boron part is the 1 piece armature (coil bobbin and cantilever receiver tube). Boron is black, but the photos online clearly show a silver/grey coloured cantilever. This is not to diminish the efforts of Denon with the 103M. Indeed, it's the only cartridge I'm aware of that uses a boron armature.

I may have that one confused another Denon with the boron tube, maybe the DL-1000. I don't have the paperwork on the 103M, just a broken cartridge.

The DL-103M did (originally) have a boron tube cantilever, but some may have been repaired with an aluminium alloy tube cantilever by a previous owner. In order of cost, here were the Denon cartridges with boron tube cantilevers, cheapest first:

DL-103M – amorphous boron pipe cantilever (Denon's description)
DL-207 – amorphous boron pipe cantilever, 0.25mg moving mass
DL-305 – amorphous boron pipe cantilever, 25 micron wall thickness, 0.168mg moving mass
DL-1000A – amorphous boron pipe cantilever, 23 micron wall thickness, outside diameter 0.3mm, 0.077mg moving mass

These all used Denon’s patented method of vapour-deposition to produce boron tubes, with the DL-1000A being the top model. Apart from the difference in wall thickness, the DL-1000A’s cantilever length in front of the coil bobbins was roughly 40% shorter than the DL-305’s, which contributed to its lower moving mass, and its nude stylus tip was shaped from a tiny 0.06mm square diamond rod, versus the 0.05 x 0.1mm rectangular diamond rod the DL-305’s tip was cut from.

Denon and Technics were the only manufacturers who perfected boron pipe cantilevers, and both used similar methods to manufacture them, which they both patented.

Edit: I've rearranged the order - apparently the DL-207 was more costly than the DL-103M, according to High Fidelity magazine's 1984 Stereo Directory. We all make mistakes...:whip:
 
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205CMK3 is 0.149mg which makes it ~270% more than the 100CMK4's 0.055mg.
I said one of the lowest not the lowest and I was aware the 100cmk4 was lower again but without looking it up I did not know by how much. The 205cmk4 was also lower again again I would need to look it up to see the difference, but the point is they are al moving magnets and very low moving mass.
Chris
 
Maybe you dont need to be rude to be rude to people... Not everyone drink and as my grandad used to say, "He who never made a mistake never made anything".. I stuff up it is life, not often but it happens, and I think grandad was right.
Chris

Not rude just a fact, drinking and partying or the maid dusting increases the odds of messing up a cart.
 
I said one of the lowest not the lowest and I was aware the 100cmk4 was lower again but without looking it up I did not know by how much. The 205cmk4 was also lower again again I would need to look it up to see the difference, but the point is they are al moving magnets and very low moving mass.
Chris

“Little lower” and “not by much” were the genesis of my commenting. 205CMK4 was 0.098mg.
 
Not rude just a fact, drinking and partying or the maid dusting increases the odds of messing up a cart.
We can all land a stylus a bit heavy especially those arms that dont have a cue arm. Ruby etc are very very fragile it really takes a gentle bump or a heavy landing and it is gone. Boron is much stronger and lighter too so makes much more sense anyway
 
I don't have a V15 but I do have a Technics EPC205mk2 and both Jico SAS/B and SAS/R, the SAS/R is significantly better than the boron in detail retrieval. Having said that your system would need to be capable of the additional resolution and if I'd never heard the ruby the SAS/B is still very good.

Lots of time "detail" can mean additional distortion, especially with cartridges and tonearms. Have you done a back to back measurement of distortion and frequency response checks between the two ?
 
Lots of time "detail" can mean additional distortion, especially with cartridges and tonearms. Have you done a back to back measurement of distortion and frequency response checks between the two ?

The only test I performed was a squarewave from the CBS STR112 LP. The SAS/R has a much faster rise time than the SAS/B in the same body. This indicates the moving mass is less in the SAS/R and this corresponds with the information from Jico. Don't get me wrong the SAS/B still sounds great and if I hadn't heard the R I would have been happy with the B.
 
The only test I performed was a squarewave from the CBS STR112 LP. The SAS/R has a much faster rise time than the SAS/B in the same body. This indicates the moving mass is less in the SAS/R and this corresponds with the information from Jico. Don't get me wrong the SAS/B still sounds great and if I hadn't heard the R I would have been happy with the B.
How long were the stylus and I wonder if the suspension was the same..?
Ruby is much heavier than boron so it being lighter does not make sense, but there must be a reason for what you observed.
Chris
 
Maybe magnet, maybe magnet position or suspension or cantilever length all will affect moving mass.
Cheers
Chris
 
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