That Grado Opus3 Cartridge

[CrSens]

As I always said this is a solo game no winners no losers, trust your ear.
AG.

We normally trust our ears, but the retipper says 300 hours and that's it no matter what we hear. So, if we don't agree with him, we are not hearing deterioration, and are damaging records. There is no possibility he might be wrong. Not at all. And then he pulls out various studies, etc.....

 

[ripblade]

We normally trust our ears, but the retipper says 300 hours and that's it no matter what we hear. So, if we don't agree with him, we are not hearing deterioration, and are damaging records. There is no possibility he might be wrong. Not at all. And then he pulls out various studies, etc.....

Not just the retipper, but the manufacturer and an independent study.

It's a conspiracy! Lol!

 

[CrSens]

Not just the retipper, but the manufacturer and an independent study.

It's a conspiracy! Lol!

So two out of the three are casual actors with no financial interest?
Lol!

 

[GChief]

SMDH

 

[GChief]

It's a conspiracy! Lol!

For some apparently

 

[ripblade]

So two out of the three are casual actors with no financial interest?
Lol!

What financial interest do they have in keeping you from damaging your records? I suppose if they continue to sound good you'll keep buying new needles for them. What else is there, I wonder...?

 

[CrSens]

What financial interest do they have in keeping you from damaging your records? I suppose if they continue to sound good you'll keep buying new needles for them. What else is there, I wonder...?

They don't. Their interest is to sell more styluses and sooner.

 

[ripblade]

They don't. Their interest is to sell more styluses and sooner.

Seems they're already busy enough, but most any manufacturer....of anything...will err on the side of caution when it comes to maintenance. Same with oil changes every 5000mi regardless of driving conditions. It's up to the end user to decide, just be aware that most people are hard of hearing at the frequencies that deteriorate first.

 

[MisterDK]

Why all this talk about stylus life and record wear? This thread is supposed to be about a specific cartridge, the Grado Opus3.
I had been wanting to try out Grado’s least costly “woodie” so that’s what I did. It’s neither the cheapest moving iron cart on the market, nor the most expensive. For what it cost me though, I think it’s a cool little cartridge that’s already sounding nice and it’s not even broken in yet.. At around 300-400 hours, I’ll probably have the tip inspected to determine if this one was really a good value, if I should be looking at other cartridges in that price range, or maybe step up to something more expensive.. So far, this Opus3 is sounding very nice and when stylus time is up, I may replace it with another Opus3, step up to a more costly Grado woodie - or go a different direction altogether. I do like the idea of retipping the Opus3 with a better cantilever and diamond though…

 

[DavidTT]

Seems they're already busy enough, but most any manufacturer....of anything...will err on the side of caution when it comes to maintenance. Same with oil changes every 5000mi regardless of driving conditions. It's up to the end user to decide, just be aware that most people are hard of hearing at the frequencies that deteriorate first.

Most everyone in these audio forums is 50+, which in itself says something about the hobby, but it's also the case that losing highest frequency information wouldn't matter a wit to almost all here.

I'll also add, as an anecdote, which carries exactly as much weight as the anecdotes from hobbyists-turned-retippers, that I own a number of records that I've played at least 150+ times, with everything from heavy tracking conicals to low VTF ellipticals and micro lines and shibatas, and those records sound exactly as they did when they were brand new. I also own records bought used, decades old now, played an unknown number of times under unknown conditions, and they too tend to sound great.

If ellipticals could be counted on to wreck records starting at 300 hours, there is no way in hell so many great-sounding used records would still exist.

Last, you're going to tell me that a buyer will spend $275 on an Opus 3, use it, say, five hours a day for TWO MONTHS and then be expected to turn it in for a new one? I promise every reader that almost never happens out in the real world.

 

[ripblade]

So that's what this stylus wear sidebar is really about: spending a chunk of change on a cartridge with no replaceable stylus and feeling ripped off at the recommended 'safe' replacement time. Actually, the cost to replace the entire cartridge - even at 300hrs - is still a very good deal. I recall in the '90s being happy if a cartridge had an amortized replacement cost of $1/hr of play time. 30yrs later the Opus3 still fits well within that budget despite the more than 30yrs inflation since.

Vinyl replay is an expensive pastime, especially so at the higher end. Either pay to play or stream digital.

 

[MisterDK]

@ripblade - when it’s time for a new tip, I believe I’d read that this cartridge can be sent to Grado for a new exchange replacement at a cost of around $180. I think that replacing the styli on other MM and MI cartridges in this price range will be around the same or more.

Anyway, I’m sure done with stylus life talk and have no interest in discussing streaming or digital anything. Kindly, keep the digital talk in the appropriate forum areas..

I have somewhere around 5000 records here that I’ve been collecting since late 1960’s - and that’s what this forum section is about - and what I want to read and learn about..

 

[cafe latte]

OK so what are the qualifications of the poster asserting 300 hours here? Unless that person is a trained professional, something other than a glorified hobbyist-turned-retipper, I'll not consider 300 hours anything other than that person's opinion.

Audio technica quote similar, Nagaoka also quote 300 hours, are they also glorified hobbyists?
Ray doing an experiment showing significant wear tracking at 1.25g at 600 hours, what do you think the stylus would look like at 300 hours ie half the time tracking at 1.8g? Google is your friend look up the table Shure did with a graph and increasing wear with tracing force re time or are the techs at Shure hobbyists too?
Re my qualifications working now full time every day checking stylus peering through my microscope assessing wear means I have a lot more experience on thr subject than most.
The problem with stylus hours is most estimate very poorly actual hours. Unless someone has a stylus timer and only one cart stylus hours is only an estimate for most people which can be many times out.
There is a new wear study over at VE where the flaws of last time will be addressed it will be interesting to see thr results.
There has been lots of research over the years by Shure and others all pointing to 300 being correct at today's higher tracking forces. If you are comfortable leaving an elliptical on for twice that tracking at 1.9g that is up to you and your records not mine.
Chris

 

[cafe latte]

So that's what this stylus wear sidebar is really about: spending a chunk of change on a cartridge with no replaceable stylus and feeling ripped off at the recommended 'safe' replacement time. Actually, the cost to replace the entire cartridge - even at 300hrs - is still a very good deal. I recall in the '90s being happy if a cartridge had an amortized replacement cost of $1/hr of play time. 30yrs later the Opus3 still fits well within that budget despite the more than 30yrs inflation since.

Vinyl replay is an expensive pastime, especially so at the higher end. Either pay to play or stream digital.

Exactly 300 hours is around a record a night, not missing a night for a year. Most of us may listen longer but there are many nights I go out or do something else, maybe watch a movie. Many here have quite a few carts too so in rotation that and having a varied life stylus for most will be a few years but still 300 hours.
Chris

 

[DavidTT]

Audio technica quote similar, Nagaoka also quote 300 hours, are they also glorified hobbyists?
Ray doing an experiment showing significant wear tracking at 1.25g at 600 hours, what do you think the stylus would look like at 300 hours ie half the time tracking at 1.8g? Google is your friend look up the table Shure did with a graph and increasing wear with tracing force re time or are the techs at Shure hobbyists too?
Re my qualifications working now full time every day checking stylus peering through my microscope assessing wear means I have a lot more experience on thr subject than most.
The problem with stylus hours is most estimate very poorly actual hours. Unless someone has a stylus timer and only one cart stylus hours is only an estimate for most people which can be many times out.
There is a new wear study over at VE where the flaws of last time will be addressed it will be interesting to see thr results.
There has been lots of research over the years by Shure and others all pointing to 300 being correct at today's higher tracking forces. If you are comfortable leaving an elliptical on for twice that tracking at 1.9g that is up to you and your records not mine.
Chris

Uh huh.

 

[cafe latte]

They don't. Their interest is to sell more styluses and sooner.

Pop over to VE and read the stylus wear studies.
At the time the research was done by Shure AT ect they were trying to do the opposite ie show their stylus lasted longer than others. There was independent tests done too, but great the wear studies are being done as it is at today's tracking forces and stylus

 

[cafe latte]

OK so what are the qualifications of the poster asserting 300 hours here? Unless that person is a trained professional, something other than a glorified hobbyist-turned-retipper, I'll not consider 300 hours anything other than that person's opinion.

Wonder who trained the Garrott Brothers?....

 

[cafe latte]

Stylus wear studies aside which is really interesting stuff and a different thread with all the data and links together would be fun and useful too, maybe we start one?
Anyway the Opus 3 is a stunning cart with a very flat response and crazy good separation which is what this thread was about.
Chris

 

[MisterDK]

Stylus wear studies aside which is really interesting stuff and a different thread with all the data and links together would be fun and useful too, maybe we start one?
Anyway the Opus 3 is a stunning cart with a very flat response and crazy good separation which is what this thread was about.
Chris

Well.. A dozen records played now and it’s getting smoother and sweeter sounding with each one. Highs may be slightly rolled off but aren’t weak. Bass and midrange seem perfect.. Clarity is quite good!
I can only imagine how this one would sound with a Microline / micro ridge tip on it.. I may go that route when this tip is stuffed.
Anyway, I do like this cartridge!

 

[cafe latte]

What loading are you using?
Yes the Micro Ridge makes a very worthwhile difference
Chris