The Great Vinyl Experiment

[BrocLuno]

I did the Windex long term soak test. BUT, forget about the thread, @#$%^& - oh well, my apologies.

I let a scratched beyond salvage Chicago (Brown Cover) album soak in Windex for three days in a cut down (and cleaned) antifreeze bottle so I could get wet/dry spot I could see. The I hit it with my cut down paint brush and dried it with a clean terry cloth. Other than the deep scratch, the rest sounded better than "un-clean". I then left it out to room atmosphere. Just looked at it last night under a strong directional light (it was hiding behind my receiver) - looking for fogging or any signs of dullness before I tossed it. Hit it with canned air to get the dust off - still looks shiny. Guess the big W does not fog recording vinyl? At least not in a matter of weeks/months?

 

[Grainger49]

I gott'a say this is one of my favorite threads!

 

[x_25]

I've got a Kenny Rogers record I could donate to the cause. :yes:

 

[Justen]

Well I could start a new thread, but I'm too dang lazy....

In my ongoing effort to have clean vinyl I have analyzed various cleaners but really what I needed was an RCM, yes a "Record Cleaning Machine". Or as I like to call it, the "Vinyl Cleanin' Apparatus" or VCA.

I had this box...well, a tube console really. Works pretty good, but the record player was a piece of shiite, even if it did work. Not that I ever bothered to test it. Anyway, here it is. Airplane dial, cat's eye tube....

 

[Justen]

So I was sitting there at the southern end of the single wide, well into my 12th Pabst Blue Ribbon, listening to some Slim Whitman, looking at a vacuum cleaner in the corner and pondering an old ice cream maker I had on the shelf. H*ll, I think to myself, this is a match made in heaven.

I'm thinking this has enough suction.

 

[Justen]

So I yank out the old record player....hmm some useful parts on it.

First I need to mount the ice cream maker motor. It has lots of torque, turns at a good speed and is built to last. Oh, I have to sacrifice a crappy Sony TT and epoxy the ice cream lid & gear to it somehow...well it all worked.

 

[Justen]

So the tonearm from the old record player holds a discwasher and flips up when removing the record. The changer support arm holds the vacuum wand just above the record. On the left are dual switches, one for the motor, one for the vacuum.

Works pretty well, if I do say so myself- I had the chance to try a VPI this weekend and I think mine works as well- noisier and larger though!. I had most of the goods hanging around the trailer, so my investment is pretty low.

Plays music, cleans records; not a bad combo!

I will say this, a vacuum based record cleaner is probably the best investment in your system you can make, assuming you spin vinyl. I don't think there is anything magic about the VPI/Dirt Doctor machines other than they are well built and done for you. As far as the best cleaning fluid, please start at the beginning of this thread!

 

[kcollins4]

Outstanding thread! Can't wait for the sequel.:thmbsp:

 

[cactuscowboy]

I did the Windex long term soak test. BUT, forget about the thread, @#$%^& - oh well, my apologies.

I let a scratched beyond salvage Chicago (Brown Cover) album soak in Windex for three days in a cut down (and cleaned) antifreeze bottle so I could get wet/dry spot I could see. The I hit it with my cut down paint brush and dried it with a clean terry cloth. Other than the deep scratch, the rest sounded better than "un-clean". I then left it out to room atmosphere. Just looked at it last night under a strong directional light (it was hiding behind my receiver) - looking for fogging or any signs of dullness before I tossed it. Hit it with canned air to get the dust off - still looks shiny. Guess the big W does not fog recording vinyl? At least not in a matter of weeks/months?

I've read enough of these record cleaning threads to have seen the oft-repeated dire warnings against using Windex, alcohol, and detergents on our precious vinyl. Such warnings invariably come from guys who's sole experience has been cleaning a few dozen pristine MOFI discs with $50-a-bottle 'audiophile approved' special formula record cleaning solutions.

In fact, Windex is sold in a plastic bottle, as are alcohol and detergent. The Windex bottle clearly states that it's to be used for cleaning "plastics".

So I'm not surprised that extended exposure to Windex caused no harm to vinyl.

Although it's not my usual procedure for all records, I will use Windex for especially grimy records. It does a great job removing those tough 'fried-chicken-fingerprints' from LPs.

 

[Grainger49]

So the tonearm from the old record player holds a discwasher and flips up when removing the record. The changer support arm holds the vacuum wand just above the record. On the left are dual switches, one for the motor, one for the vacuum.

Works pretty well, if I do say so myself- I had the chance to try a VPI this weekend and I think mine works as well- noisier and larger though!. I had most of the goods hanging around the trailer, so my investment is pretty low.

Plays music, cleans records; not a bad combo!

I will say this, a vacuum based record cleaner is probably the best investment in your system you can make, assuming you spin vinyl. I don't think there is anything magic about the VPI/Dirt Doctor machines other than they are well built and done for you. As far as the best cleaning fluid, please start at the beginning of this thread!

The finished product made me laugh hard enough the cat was disturbed and ran down the hall. :lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

VPI sells the tube with the velvet lips. :nono::nono::nono: (Not my name for them it's theirs, make fun of Harry!)

But I really like the looks of the Diskwasher on an arm!

 

[cason]

Justen,
I was in my local GW two weeks ago and saw a dilapidated ice cream machine. Didn't buy it, but thinking about it later it occured to me it would make part of a great RCM. Lots of torque, made to run for extended periods, easy to attach a platter to. Went back to get it last Saturday and, of course, it was gone. Pleased to hear of your success. Will be looking for one now.
Bob

 

[Grainger49]

Cason,

Great avatar. I don't recognize it.

 

[markd51]

Well. I'm chime in again Cactus (You guys are probably saying Oh No!)

Some of your common sense thoughts could of course be taken to ridiculous extremes as I'll show. Many products of today are packaged in Plastic Containers, such as many Petroleum products, Acids, Alkalis, and I'll save space by listing the vast number, but I think you, and all get the picture that because these products can "live" in a plastic container, certainly would not make them suitable for use.

I'm 53, I've been playing with vinyl probably since 1962-1964. Who knew back then to clean a record? Records were basically cheap throw away items. To get through a scratch, the old Nickel came out, and got placed on the Tonearm. (How about that, they did call it a Tonearm back then!)

I took a major jump around 1973-1974. A Pioneer PL-51, and Shure V-15 Type III, the Cartridge I still have, and still looks, and plays like new, now sporting a Jico SAS Stylus.

I've been through every product one can virtually think of. I don't think Discwasher even had a "D" designation (D2, D3, D4) when I began using it.

Again, with common sense analogy, Tide Clothes Detergent "could be used" to Shampoo your hair with, and your hair will come out nice, and squeaky clean, and hey, even a nice scent to boot, but,.... would you want to use it on your hair? Maybe some people would, and do?

Coming up to the present, yes, I'll admit, I have many beautiful records, quite a few MO-Fi's as well, and you seem to speak of these with an air of disdain, in that I get the impression that only perhaps a fool with money to thow away should have these in his/her collection? Perhaps I'm wrong about this, so forgive me if these assumptions are incorrect?

If these products work for you, and you feel comfortable using them, then by all means that's great. There may be others, who will follow, and say, "Hey, Cactus sure came up with a really great cleaning method, and he's made a believer out of me", sort of story.

I'm sure you would agree, what might work for you, would not be the best choice for others, just as my choices-methods may not work for you, and others as well.

At the present, it now does certainly appear, that Vinyl does not have to be a "throw away media" with a limited use life anymore. Knowledge, and better products seem to have assured that Vinyl can last a lifetime with proper care-storage. Who ever would've thought-believed this 40-50 years ago? I certainly didn't.

It might be hard for some to fork over $20, and $40 for a good known to work cleaning product, but when you spread that cost to how many records that can be correctly cleaned to better than fresh from the jacket (Yes, even those thrift shops jobs come back to life admirably) then the cost is really not an issue I feel.

Each one of us individually has to come to grips with what should they be using, what results do they wish to attain, and if money is an issue, then how much should they spend to satisfy thier own needs?

As "Craze" said in the movie Full Metal Jacket, "These are great times we are living in Bro". With the re-birth of Vinyl, we now have so many choices, and options at our disposal. Mark

 

[markd51]

I was recently reminded from a buddy what this thread's topic was, and that was the experimentation of what might, or might not hurt vinyl, and I fully understand that people were looking for both the wise alternatives, and as well, the not so wise, in hopes to garner knowledge, which of those who have followed along, have hopefully gained some new ideas here, otherwise we all wasted our time, and efforts.

It appears we all do have a common ground, as we all still like our vinyl, and hope to continue on.

Hopefully, all of our "collective" knowledge will continue to grow as we learn new things, and try to share these things with others in the community.


I know some of my posts may have appeared harsh, or blunt, and we all have our own opinions to hopefully form a basis of what seems to work well, and also what doesn't. Mark

 

[meggy]

Justen,
dilapidated ice cream machine. Didn't buy it,Will be looking for one now.
Bob

pls excuse mini hij reply: pasta/bread machines too!! unstoppable torque $4 GW.

 

[Grainger49]

Markd51 you have a PM.

Which, by the way, was sent before your post #154 above.

 

[Justen]

I was recently reminded from a buddy what this thread's topic was, and that was the experimentation of what might, or might not hurt vinyl, and I fully understand that people were looking for both the wise alternatives, and as well, the not so wise, in hopes to garner knowledge, which of those who have followed along, have hopefully gained some new ideas here, otherwise we all wasted our time, and efforts.

That's a hell of a long sentence!

Welcome back to the thread Mark! I may have wasted my time & efforts, trashed an old stylus and caused you to go into overload at least once, but they were mine to waste and I've learned a lot along the way. I may not have changed your mind and I certainly haven't scientifically proven anything, I'm comfortable with my conclusions. Your mileage may vary.

 

[cactuscowboy]

It might be hard for some to fork over $20, and $40 for a good known to work cleaning product, but when you spread that cost to how many records that can be correctly cleaned to better than fresh from the jacket (Yes, even those thrift shops jobs come back to life admirably) then the cost is really not an issue I feel.

No, it's not hard to "fork over $20, and $40", it's wasteful and unnecessary, IMO. Cost really is an issue. I've cleaned over 2,000 LPs in the past three months. Having used gallons of cleaning solution, cost is a real consideration.

My homebrew isopropyl/distilled water record cleaning solution costs less than $5.00 per gallon. It is "known to work" and all of my records are "correctly cleaned to better than fresh from the jacket". So how does that differ from a similar product sold at 10 times the cost?

If a guy wants to spend a lot of money on 'audiophile approved' record cleaning solutions that's cool. I'm just tired of hearing the same guys condemn homebrew solutions as harmful or ineffective when they're not.

 

[Grainger49]

I kind of think cactuscowboy and Markd51 should get together, drink a 6-pack and then clean records till they either agree or agree to disagree!

And the beer wouldn't be bad either.

(I see cactuscowboy already likes beer, babes who smoke and rub their face makeup on LPs. Naturally he needs a really good LP cleaner {this is all tongue-in-cheek here, please don't misunderstand me!})

 

[cactuscowboy]

I kind of think cactuscowboy and Markd51 should get together, drink a 6-pack and then clean records till they either agree or agree to disagree!

And the beer wouldn't be bad either.

(I see cactuscowboy already likes beer, babes who smoke and rub their face makeup on LPs. Naturally he needs a really good LP cleaner {this is all tongue-in-cheek here, please don't misunderstand me!})

I'll drink to that!

That photo in my avatar (from Sammy Kaye - Midnight Serenade LP) is a great example of how those thrift shop records from the 50s got so dirty and scratched up. It's ironic how some of these album covers (depicting terrible mishandling of records) have innersleeves detailing the proper care and handling of LPs.