Outland
Active Member
So it is surprising to see a luxury car with a manual in 1992 Europe, just like it would be in the States, right?
What Car Is This?
- Thread starter Outland
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So it is surprising to see a luxury car with a manual in 1992 Europe, just like it would be in the States, right?
Depends on the platform and what it was sold for originally. Mercedes with manual trans were used extensively for taxi and other fleet work, particularly with diesel engines. The SEL/SEC models in question were larger/more expensive cars and less likely to have come with stick, unless possibly as part of a sport package (AMG, et al). My guess is the balance swings from 99.5% with auto (in the US) to 95% with auto (Europe) but that's just a guess.
John
John
Outland
Active Member
John, that's exactly the answer I was looking for.
I was under the impression that most cars in Europe were manual, in contrast to the States. I see now that this is really only true for lower-end cars, as luxury cars went majority automatic in the '90s just like they did in the States.
Thanks for clearing that up all.
I was under the impression that most cars in Europe were manual, in contrast to the States. I see now that this is really only true for lower-end cars, as luxury cars went majority automatic in the '90s just like they did in the States.
Thanks for clearing that up all.
If you separate performance luxury cars from that description - as many of those could have likely had manual trans, i.e. big AMG Mercs or TOTL BMW's, exotics like Ferrari etc. - I would guess that is the case.
Gas has always been more expensive there, and the manual trans is more efficient (still today, in fact manual is making a mini-comeback lately). Also engine sizes were often smaller (still are) because of that cost & also taxes imposed on larger displacement engines, and the stick is a better way to squeeze the best performance out of a smaller engine. Manual trans were also less expensive, able to last relatively longer with lower cost maintenance (look at cost to replace a clutch & throwout bearing vs. rebuilding a 4- or 5-spd automatic), and so forth. For the performance cars, sometimes it was a decision based on what was available to handle that much HP and torque as well as whether the car was built to drive the wheels off as opposed to being a luxury cruiser.
Again, this is me speaking in generalities and without having lived there, though I did spend many years working on & around European cars here in the US. Take all of that with a grain of salt, and ymmv basically.
John
P.S. Also have to keep it in context of time; floppy paddle sequential gearboxes filled the space on some TOTL luxury or performance luxury cars more recently.
Gas has always been more expensive there, and the manual trans is more efficient (still today, in fact manual is making a mini-comeback lately). Also engine sizes were often smaller (still are) because of that cost & also taxes imposed on larger displacement engines, and the stick is a better way to squeeze the best performance out of a smaller engine. Manual trans were also less expensive, able to last relatively longer with lower cost maintenance (look at cost to replace a clutch & throwout bearing vs. rebuilding a 4- or 5-spd automatic), and so forth. For the performance cars, sometimes it was a decision based on what was available to handle that much HP and torque as well as whether the car was built to drive the wheels off as opposed to being a luxury cruiser.
Again, this is me speaking in generalities and without having lived there, though I did spend many years working on & around European cars here in the US. Take all of that with a grain of salt, and ymmv basically.
John
P.S. Also have to keep it in context of time; floppy paddle sequential gearboxes filled the space on some TOTL luxury or performance luxury cars more recently.
Sandy G
Retired Member
I remember when I went to Germany in 1978 that the big "S-Class" Mercedes were NOT necessarily "Gussied up" w/as many "Conveniences" as their American siblings were...You could apparently get a home-market S-Class back then w/-Gasp !-manual transmission, manual windows, no A/C, & possibly even rubber floormats. Not ALL of 'em had what motor they had either, even quite a few of the S-class cars were 6-cyl powered. Another thing to consider, though, is that summers in Europe, at least Germany are nowhere nearly as brutally hot & sticky as they can be here, so a car w/o A/C isn't quite as odd as it is here.
Yep... they had a lot of 280 engined 6-cyl cars and power anything was optional.
Another part of this is that the US dealers *knew* they were going to sell every single car they imported to the US, so guess what? They ordered (or agreed to take) the full-boat version more often than not, as a way to maximize the profit margins.I don't think the US dealer base was looking for a car they could sell in competition with Chevy or Ford.
Goes back further than the OP is talking about, but my '68 280 SE was a typical US import, had power windows, power steering & brakes, and auto trans. Wasn't quite the TOTL w/V8 though, and the A/C got added by the US dealer after it landed here.
John
Another part of this is that the US dealers *knew* they were going to sell every single car they imported to the US, so guess what? They ordered (or agreed to take) the full-boat version more often than not, as a way to maximize the profit margins.I don't think the US dealer base was looking for a car they could sell in competition with Chevy or Ford.
Goes back further than the OP is talking about, but my '68 280 SE was a typical US import, had power windows, power steering & brakes, and auto trans. Wasn't quite the TOTL w/V8 though, and the A/C got added by the US dealer after it landed here.
John
