CarlV
Lunatic Member
Do you have links for any this? As moderator I am getting concerned with the level of hearsay and lack of facts. I will be asking the Administrators to review this thread.
Carl
Upgrade Company mods for Mcintosh amps
- Thread starter Kevin M.
- Start date
Carl
panhead
Mac owner for life.
Is this something that Chuck Hinton said to you personally? or is it something you read somewhere,then reported to us as a first hand fact?.
I suspect the latter:sigh:If Ron dont chime in i think an email to Mcintosh will be in order.
Carl and others,
The link to German distributor Audio Components is
http://www.audiocomponents.de/
If you click the button "Warum eine AC-Version?" - "Why an AC-version?" you will get the following information:
"Wir möchten Sie darauf hinweisen, dass unsere Produkte mit AC-Version nicht exakt denen in anderen Ländern entsprechen.
Unsere McIntosh Geräte haben Modifikationen, bessere Kondensatoren und sind mit Siltech Netzkabeln ausgestattet."
which translates:
"We would like to inform you that our products as an AC-version are not the same as in other countries. Our McIntosh-units have modifications, better capacitors and are equipped with Siltech-power cables."
The German magazine Audio reviewed the C200 in its issue June 2001. On page 180 of the magazine, the text line of a photograph of the interior of a C200 reads: "Suchbild: Insgesamt 48 Bauteile (!) tauscht der deutsche McIntosh-Importeur Audio Components gegenüber dem US-Original aus. Welche? Dazu schweigt AC-Boss Adib Khavari. Tatsächlich soll der unbearbeitete McIntosh deutlich behäbiger spielen."
Translation: "Search image: All in all, German McIntosh-importer Audio Components exchanges 48 parts in comparison to the US-original. Which ones? AC-boss Adib Khavari will not say. Indeed, the non-mondified McIntosh supposedly plays noticably muddier/slower."
In a fax to Chuck Hinton on October 23, 2002, I sent him a copy of the article and my question if this was true, as I was still pondering where to buy a C200 - in my home country Germany, or in Moscow, where I live. Hinton emailed my an answer a few days later, of the content that AC did indeed exchange parts, i.e. use different capacitors, and that McIntosh was OK with that.
Regards,
Florian Hassel
The link to German distributor Audio Components is
http://www.audiocomponents.de/
If you click the button "Warum eine AC-Version?" - "Why an AC-version?" you will get the following information:
"Wir möchten Sie darauf hinweisen, dass unsere Produkte mit AC-Version nicht exakt denen in anderen Ländern entsprechen.
Unsere McIntosh Geräte haben Modifikationen, bessere Kondensatoren und sind mit Siltech Netzkabeln ausgestattet."
which translates:
"We would like to inform you that our products as an AC-version are not the same as in other countries. Our McIntosh-units have modifications, better capacitors and are equipped with Siltech-power cables."
The German magazine Audio reviewed the C200 in its issue June 2001. On page 180 of the magazine, the text line of a photograph of the interior of a C200 reads: "Suchbild: Insgesamt 48 Bauteile (!) tauscht der deutsche McIntosh-Importeur Audio Components gegenüber dem US-Original aus. Welche? Dazu schweigt AC-Boss Adib Khavari. Tatsächlich soll der unbearbeitete McIntosh deutlich behäbiger spielen."
Translation: "Search image: All in all, German McIntosh-importer Audio Components exchanges 48 parts in comparison to the US-original. Which ones? AC-boss Adib Khavari will not say. Indeed, the non-mondified McIntosh supposedly plays noticably muddier/slower."
In a fax to Chuck Hinton on October 23, 2002, I sent him a copy of the article and my question if this was true, as I was still pondering where to buy a C200 - in my home country Germany, or in Moscow, where I live. Hinton emailed my an answer a few days later, of the content that AC did indeed exchange parts, i.e. use different capacitors, and that McIntosh was OK with that.
Regards,
Florian Hassel
ron-c
Addicted Member
McIntosh uses very specialized custom parts. These parts are very tight tolerance and allow McIntosh products to meet their high performance specifications.
Yes, changing parts can result in a change in sound or unique marketing solution. Different is not necessarily better and everyone has their own opinion of what sounds best.
Any parts change that would increase distortion, change frequency response, or increase crosstalk and background noise should be avoided.
Thanks,
Ron-C
Yes, changing parts can result in a change in sound or unique marketing solution. Different is not necessarily better and everyone has their own opinion of what sounds best.
Any parts change that would increase distortion, change frequency response, or increase crosstalk and background noise should be avoided.
Thanks,
Ron-C
The fact that by changing components in the signal path may result in a much improved result is no surprise to me, the fact that McIntosh may upgrade some parts for overseas markets and not offer them within USA is a big surprise to me. Can't say that that theory sits well with me. 
Is Mcintosh indeed "OK" with what the German company does? Specifically is he voiding the warranty? If so, maybe Mcintosh could be "OK" with a U.S. company doing the same mods?
The following is a question only, and not any kind of a statement as to the audio gear aspects:
If you go to Germany, you'll find that there is a preference for more detailed, analytical sound than in the US. Naturally, within that vague generalization, there is the usual bell curve of preferences for analytic vs forgiving in both countries. All audio gear is designed to "optimize" a set of compromises for the target market. Mc's "house" sound is their signature optimization.
Why is it surprising that when the German importer receives the standard C-200 from Mc, it swaps out 48 components (with Mc's permission) to more closely match the German market preferences? Why wouldn't the same occur in Japan and elsewhere? It seems to me Mc has carefully chosen quality distributors who know their market and the technology well enough to make the required changes.
If you go to Germany, you'll find that there is a preference for more detailed, analytical sound than in the US. Naturally, within that vague generalization, there is the usual bell curve of preferences for analytic vs forgiving in both countries. All audio gear is designed to "optimize" a set of compromises for the target market. Mc's "house" sound is their signature optimization.
Why is it surprising that when the German importer receives the standard C-200 from Mc, it swaps out 48 components (with Mc's permission) to more closely match the German market preferences? Why wouldn't the same occur in Japan and elsewhere? It seems to me Mc has carefully chosen quality distributors who know their market and the technology well enough to make the required changes.
It seems to me that Ron-C implies here that McIntosh is not endorsing special changes for the market in Europe...or am I missing something?
FWIW - I've known plenty of journalists that write well but aren't too swift on the technical things they write about...even well regarded journalists. Often, well-regarded journalists have simply been around a long time, which doesn't always mean they are well qualified.
BTW - how do you delete a post? I wanted to delete this one but couldn't figure out how. Reason for deleting...Ron-C is generous and very helpful in this forum. I feel my post might seem like I am trying to provoke him, which I am not at all.
Last edited:
He says that they sell the same gear world wide but does not address whether the mods are done with Mcintosh's approval. If you read the post, it never said that the gear arrives in Germany modified. Hence, Ron is just saying it is not sold that way. Apparently it is sold "stock" and then modified. Does anyone know what caps the Mcintosh amps use?
Victor
Super Member
While I can't speak for Dave at the Upgrade Company, I did spend about 9 hours with him on Saturday. I'll try to address some things brought up here from my impressions I got from that visit.
2) He usually charges $1000 each piece to upgrade it. I am getting a discount for doing 4 pieces and because McIntosh uses quality parts and less parts will need replacing (like filter caps).The final price is not fixed yet, mainly depending on the parts used (like how many Bybee Quantum Purifiers he uses). I'm expecting the final price to upgrade 2 MC501s, MDA1000 and MS750 to be about $2500.
3) This will take about a week. I'm going back Sunday to pick up the equipment.
I will go back and pick up the upgraded equipment on Sunday. I will for sure keep you all up to date on how I like the upgrades, from first impressions to long listening sessions to weather or not I find myself listening to my system more or less in the upcoming months.
Victor
1) This is the first time I have had anyone upgrade any of my equipment so I have nothing to compare it to. I work on cars for a living and I specialize in electrical repairs. I have had some classes and done some research on electrical systems and electron theory. This makes it hard for someone to BS me. As I spoke with Dave for hours on end on upgrading stereo equipment he never said anything that did not make sense to me and I did not catch him in any BS statements. I was impressed with Dave's knowledge and theories. The question is will I still be impressed with him after I get my equipment back, I will post later and let you know.
2) He usually charges $1000 each piece to upgrade it. I am getting a discount for doing 4 pieces and because McIntosh uses quality parts and less parts will need replacing (like filter caps).The final price is not fixed yet, mainly depending on the parts used (like how many Bybee Quantum Purifiers he uses). I'm expecting the final price to upgrade 2 MC501s, MDA1000 and MS750 to be about $2500.
3) This will take about a week. I'm going back Sunday to pick up the equipment.
I would also like Dave to disclose what he does in an upgrade but I understand why he wants to protect his secrets. I respect Dave enough to not give away his secrets but I will give you an idea of what he does. Each piece of equipment he upgrades gets individual attention because what helps "brand X" CD player may make "brand Y" CD player sound worse. He will install better parts like caps, resistors and wires. He will address internal shielding and vibration issues. He will make upgrades to power supplies. He will even do the tedious time consuming things like inspect all solder joints to improve internal connections. You would be surprised how much equipment uses wire wrap connections without any solder, these items could get corroded and have bad connections. Much equipment is made with ease of manufacturing and repairs taking priority over the best sound possible, Dave addresses these issues and much more.
This is a consern of mine on the upgrades. I'm sure that Dave can improve the sound of the equipment but will I still enjoy it several months later. What sounds best at first may be harsh later.
I will go back and pick up the upgraded equipment on Sunday. I will for sure keep you all up to date on how I like the upgrades, from first impressions to long listening sessions to weather or not I find myself listening to my system more or less in the upcoming months.
Victor
howiebrou
Super Member
This is all very interesting but hardly unique to Mac. My view, if you want to upgrade it by inserting better components or if you want to change the sound signature more to your liking go for it :thmbsp:
I see this as no different than tweaking with cables and the like, except that I can do the latter myself but not the former!
howie
I see this as no different than tweaking with cables and the like, except that I can do the latter myself but not the former!
howie
Klipschfan
Against the Tide
Perception supersedes reality.....guess if we love to listen to live music then we should never modify it through our McIntosh equipment. Time for everyone to sell their unfaithful McIntosh systems and purchase concert tickets.
Progress continues to open doors for the future. I thought R&D was a new band........:scratch2:
JohnThomas
Active Member
Quick Tony throw Victor in the back of the trunk and dump his body in the river. :uzi::uzi:
istols:
Victor
Super Member
Quick Tony throw Victor in the back of the trunk and dump his body in the river. :uzi::uzi:
Ha, that sure would save me these difficult decisions. :lmao:
Victor
toddmorris
New Member
Why not? You aren't suggesting Mac is too good to be improved are you?
In audio and non-audio fields there are any number of decent products on the marketplace with thriving post-sales modifiers doing their thing, and making good money at it. Sending my equipment to a modifier isn't that different than buying a new cable, except that one makes more sense to my ears.
