Upgrade Company mods for Mcintosh amps

[toddmorris]

this is a fascinating thread. But I'm not sure I have it right. Ron's earlier post about Mac selling "one grade" of product globally was kind of murky, frankly.

Does Mac manufacture identical products for all markets globally?
Secondly, it appears Mac countenances its distributors modifying its products. Are those products warranted as new?

 

[Kevin M.]

I contacted a few guys who work on Mcintosh gear. I will not post who they are. They were made aware of this thread and can post if they wish. The consensus was clear, Mcintosh amps are built with high quality parts. As for Dave, at the Upgrade Company, I think he is the real deal and does what he says based upon comments I was able to get from others that he did not solicit to post on this thread. Of the people familiar with the build quality of Mcintosh, all felt that changing parts would more than likely just change the sound as the quality was already high.

Victor, I look forward to hearing your views on Dave's upgrades!

 

[CarlV]

Secondly, forum posters look rather foolish passing judgement on something they have zero firsthand experience with. When you lack faith and firsthand investigative skills, you fail to find out the truth.

This content and only the one post doesn't exactly spread a whole lot of good will IMO, rather a total turnoff actually. But that is me.
It will be an interesting read when Victor posts his findings in the Reviews forum.


Carl

 

[howiebrou]

I will give the upgrade the benefit of the doubt for now and with such a trustworthy and knowledgeable proponent as Victor acting as Guinea Pig, next week should be highly interesting! :thmbsp:

howie

 

[hassel]

My impression was that it was McIntosh itself that changes the units for the German market, not the German importer.

The aforementioned magazine HiFi&Records, in its issue 3/2007, published a - favorable - review of the MCD 201, where editor Wilfried Kress found the player sound as good, although different, as the new Accuphase DP500. Kress described that "the Americans do not give a damn about "audiophile philosophies", but care about solid technical questions. Part quality, for example, seems to be looked upon rather from a point of view of reliability and long-term-stability. Therefore, they use in their units shielded electromagnetic switches, which cost real money, but will offer excellent contact in years to come. Exotic capacitors, high end-cinch terminals or board material from space science (a hint to the Arlon-boards Mark Levinson uses) you will look for in vain. Adib Khavari knows of this thinking und lets himself built AC-versions, which shall get better components at important points."

I do not find anything astonishing about this. Even Esoteric-players, considered to be the gold standard in the industry, may be improved by upgrading internal parts, soldering and the like, as we read not only on the web or Reference Audio Modifications, but from professional reviewers of TAS, too. So why McIntosh should not be improved upon? I, too, look forward to Victors experience.

Audio Components is one of the oldest, and largest, foreign distributors of McIntosh. I called Audio Components this morning.

The responsible technician told me that "we fine-tune the power supply and signal processing, using for example better capacitors". We invite you to bring over any McIntosh that was sold in England or Holland and compare it to our units - you will hear that our units sound considerably better. The modifications are done here in Hamburg, not by Mcntosh, but McIntosh knows about it and is OK with it."

Finally, it is not true that the German market favors a more detailed, analytical sound. By now, in Germany you find all US, British and Japanese high end producers and a large number of German firms. Some of them, like T+A or Audionet, may indeed offer a more analytical sound. Others, like Einstein. Symphonic Line or the huge number of German tube-amp-producers, are known for their warm, musical sound more of the McIntosh-tradition.
Regards,
Florian Hassel

 

[panhead]

A 252 upgraded bests the larger 402, 602 and 501's in ever sonic parameter to all ears in double blind comparisons performed.

Sincerely,
David J. Schulte
The Upgrade Company
www.upgradecompany.com

Thats a pretty bold claim,not that it isnt true but it's lacking much info,can you please outline the paramaters of these DBT's you performed.

 

[speedracer]

I'm wondering if the "sound' Victor is looking for could accomplished with different speakers and / or room acoustics ?

 

[ron-c]

Each distributor is responsible for warranty in their own market. The German distributor is technically very competent and knows his customer and market well.
As far as the US market you may want to wait for your 3 year warranty to expire first. Just like a new car, once you start changing motor or drive line parts the warranty is void.

Thanks,
Ron-C

 

[exracer]

Each distributor is responsible for warranty in their own market. The German distributor is technically very competent and knows his customer and market well.
As far as the US market you may want to wait for your 3 year warranty to expire first. Just like a new car, once you start changing motor or drive line parts the warranty is void.

Thanks,
Ron-C

Ron, is it an option for a customer to have Mcintosh build a different spec component?

 

[CarlV]

I remembered your troubles a few years ago,
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17792&highlight=Germany

Do you think that in the end the modifications that the German distributor did may have anything to do with the Russian distributor not honoring the warranty?
I'm just curious here as it is all water under the bridge now anyway.


Carl

 

[ron-c]

ExRacer,

Not an option.

Thanks,
Ron-C

 

[hassel]

Carl,
you mix several things up, if you read aforementioned service thread again, you will see that I described the circumstances in detail.

The McIntosh-unit which gave me problems a few years ago and which was not serviced was a non-modified MA6500, which I bought here in Moscow, from an official dealer, who promised me a three-year-warranty, and who, together with the distributor for Russia, did not want to service it when the described problem arose after a little bit more than a year.

After I described the problem on audiokharma, and an intervention from Ron Cornelius, I was contacted and the 6500 was serviced for free - as I have already described here, too.

After this, I upgraded to an Audio Components-modified C200, bought in Germany because it supposedly was superior to the original C200s sold here in Moscow. Later, I bought a MC402, too, here in Moscow. Both amps are working without problems.
Regards,
Florian Hassel

 

[CarlV]

Sorry for the mixup. I had not fully wakened when I read it. Thank you for the clarification.



Carl

 

[david10024]

This is the best thread I have seen here in a while! Thanks to Victor for having the courage to spend money to get the answer. Who knows, if these mods are worth it McIntosh might end up offering "se" options with audiophile capacitors. I don't think economical upgrades will hurt sales.

I join those who think it could take months though to know for sure if it is worth it. I had some expensive mods done to my Sony SCD777es a few years ago. The mods had great reviews. It actually took me a year or more to realize that in my case the added detail was not musical, maybe even a little fatiguing. It needed tubes to tame it. I have since sold it.

I don't know how to insert the popcorn icon here, so just imagine it.

 

[speedracer]

This is the best thread I have seen here in a while! Thanks to Victor for having the courage to spend money to get the answer. Who knows, if these mods are worth it McIntosh might end up offering "se" options with audiophile capacitors. I don't think economical upgrades will hurt sales.

I join those who think it could take months though to know for sure if it is worth it. I had some expensive mods done to my Sony SCD777es a few years ago. The mods had great reviews. It actually took me a year or more to realize that in my case the added detail was not musical, maybe even a little fatiguing. It needed tubes to tame it. I have since sold it.

I don't know how to insert the popcorn icon here, so just imagine it.

So in reality, the "mods" didn't work for you (?)

 

[PakProtector]

i say keep the amps as they are....when someone says that one of Mc's top amps reached another plateau..I run away.

In my view, I thought the super $$ gear that is well made, already got you pretty close to the absolute best performance possible by current designs....Hyperbole just make me suspicious....

anything can be improved; especially bean-countered mass production gear. Take the valve amps. Their phase splitter offers opportunity; 12AU7 is a barely functional twin triode. Swap it for a 6CG7, equalize its plate loads and put a good CCS in place of the tail resistor. After that, consider making the fixed bias adjustable. Balancing DC in the OPT will improve its LF performance.

Before modifying, know why the original deployed, and what it is you're 'improving'. Just because it was approved for production does not mean it is in the most favourable configuration.
cheers,
Douglas

 

[david10024]

"So in reality, the "mods" didn't work for you (?)"

That's right, I spent thousands of dollars but in the end I felt it was not well spent. On the other hand I rediscovered vinyl in the interim which made me more critical. I now enjoy digital through a computer with a pro sound card which is better than the modded Sony SACD player.

I am open minded though. It is so hard to tell if you really have a substantial improvement until you live with it even when others rave. I would hate to mess up the beautiful sound of my MC402.

 

[LIONKING]

if someone is truly this talented I dont understand why they wouldnt work for the company factory in engineering/design, and help them produce a better product, like Roger Russell used to do.

Apparently being a wage slave is much more attractive to folks in Canada. A designer working for McIntosh is certainly to have a great number of design constraints given the incredible conservative nature of the average McIntosh customer. Suppose you were hired from MIT to work at McIntosh and in your first month of work you demonstrated you could design a better sounding amp if it didnt have meters, used ICE modules, didnt have autoformers --- and was the size of a pack of cigarettes. I'm guessing you'd have a short career.


David is going down a very smart path with low capital requirements and after a few years many people would assume if he can improve a McIntosh amp he can design a better amp from a clean sheet of paper (not that this is true --- just that most people would believe it)

 

[DR. JAM]

You guys thinking of mods may want to wait for the new Mac products. I read from another thread that the new C500 and 1.2KW may have lost that "mac house sound". As for me I bought a mac for its house sound which may I say is probably the best for my ears!!! If you want better sound then you may as well have the band play live in your listening room-it may be cheaper than $1000 per mod.

 

[Kevin M.]

I keep laughing and thinking,Mac-n-Krell, That's what you could end up with