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Harman Kardon A500 No Sound

I would measure all the taps coming off the B+ line*. Plus, the heater lines (green and green/white, nominal is 6.3 VAC).

*(nominal = 370, 350, 340, 330, 315, and 170 VDC). These are measured with red meter lead at the point and black lead on the ground.

index.php

Sorry, I don't own this amp, so I can't take a photo of where each lead is in the layout. The layout of the amp's online PDF is very poor quality. :(

https://audiocircuit.dk/downloads/harmankardon/HarmanKardon-A500-int-sm.pdf
 
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I would measure all the taps coming off the B+ line*. Plus, the heater lines (green and green/white, nominal is 6.3 VAC).

*(nominal = 370, 350, 340, 330, 315, and 170 VDC). These are measured with red meter lead at the point and black lead on the ground.

index.php

Sorry, I don't own this amp, so I can't take a photo of where each lead is in the layout. The layout of the amp's online PDF is very poor quality. :(

https://audiocircuit.dk/downloads/harmankardon/HarmanKardon-A500-int-sm.pdf
Hi! I’m not sure what B+ means but I did already measure each tap when the all wires were connected. Shouldn’t disconnect anything and measure them for you?

1736903970395.png


I’ll measure the green lines a little later
 
Heater lines, Grn and Grn/White have been measured and I found 6.63 VAC

So now my question is, the tubes have heat yet are not lighting up when everything is connected.

Without a load my transformers are good, and we know the doubler circuit is good. But once the circuit is connected back up to C27, something is going on further in the circuit.

Any ideas where / how to measure next?
 
You said you already measured them, but your marking on the schematic shows 229V for B+ while you say you just measured 408V?
Measure them again — making sure the B+ (first point on the power line after the diodes) measured 408 VDC. Be sure your lines from the meter are secure. I have an alligator clip adapter for mine.

3f270bc8-e532-4d99-bbaf-39b61c20ca60.jpg
 
C27 and C28 work together to provide the voltage doubling function (along with the diodes of course).

There are several ways you can go next. I think what I'd do next is remove all tubes (if you haven't already--including the small signal tubes and of course the power tubes). Hook back up the 370V line, use an alligator test lead for now, if you have one. Keep the 680Ω resistor disconnected from the circuit. Power it up again and measure the voltage just as you did before from the positive lead of C27 to ground. If all is working, you should measure very nearly the same voltage as before, something like 408V DC.

Don't forget to discharge the caps after the test before you touch or interact with anything in the circuit. And do be careful with these exposed voltages! It's easy to get in a hurry and zap yourself. I got jolted with 600V DC one time--luckily it was the back of my hand just grazing the positive lead of one of the filter caps. It put a big red welt on my hand just below the knuckles. But I am still alive since it was one hand only ;).
 
I then measured after the Doubler. and found 408 VDC. I beleive this means that the diodes, caps, and C27/C28 are healthy and doing their jobs right?
What was connected to the doubler output when you made this measurement? Was everything still connected (you just removed the output tubes)? Or did you disconnect at the two "X" marks? In either case, it's still not certain the entire doubler circuit is OK. I think you need to confirm again with an ohmmeter that the 3.3Ω resistor is the correct value, and it would be a good idea to measure the resistance of the transformer secondary winding. If you do that, I'll try to measure mine later this evening to compare. I'm just very skeptical that the output circuit can drag the doubler down to +229V without blowing the fuse (unless there's a high resistance somewhere in the doubler components or transformer). You have checked the value of the fuse as suggested earlier, right? And the two electrolytic caps in the doubler are new, yes?

Jack
 
B+ is ancient terminology for the high voltage DC power supply. It comes from the radios of the 1920s, the A battery was filaments, B was plates, and C was grid bias if it had that.

Why B+ stuck around and none of the rest did, i have no clue
 
You said you already measured them, but your marking on the schematic shows 229V for B+ while you say you just measured 408V?
Yes, what I measured with 408 was with everything disconnected after C27. The other measurements were with the full circuit connected. Should I measured the B+ points with C27 disconnected as well?

I’ll measure what was suggested above in the morning and get back to everyone.

Thanks!
 
No, at this point I would try to verify you have the power supply wired properly. Can you confirm where this (new) red wire runs to? It should run to the plate resistor for V5 (the 12au7). That would be the 340V tap on the schematic.

IMG_3518.jpeg
 
B+ is ancient terminology for the high voltage DC power supply. It comes from the radios of the 1920s, the A battery was filaments, B was plates, and C was grid bias if it had that.

Why B+ stuck around and none of the rest did, i have no clue
I call the bias supply C-. :)
 
Morning all! So this thread is getting longer and it seems several people are now invested. Let me make a synopsis post along with a few next steps.

My original problem: I replaced the electrolytic caps and no longer received sound of any kind out of my amp. The 4 smaller tubes no longer lit up. There was a slight smoking smell and sizzle.

My original measurements were these directly after receiving no sound. All tubes still in the system.
1736946065754.png

Then you lovely folks came in.

Where we are at now as of this post:
* All tubes have been pulled and tested good.
* Fuse is the correct size
* All caps have been tested and have the capacitance as stated still (if you still think they could be damaged please let me know)
* I'm plugged into a 120VAC outlet.
* R85 = 3.7 Ohms (Replaced just in case)
* R78 = 665 Ohms (Replaced after finding this to be shorted, my guess is this is what sizzled).

Now, I started with measuring the secondary windings of the transformer with 0 load. . Yellow and blue arrows will be used from here onwards to indicate my meter probes. Red X's indicate where the wires were snipped. Here I measured 155VAC.
1736946326562.png

Next, I connected the doubler circuit back up, and disconnected the 370V tap and R78 (680Ohm). From my understanding this tests the transformer and doubler circuit without there being any other load. This measured 408 VDC. To my understanding this mostly proves that the diodes, C25-C28, and the 3.3 resistor are okay and doing their job.
1736946503355.png

I then also measured across the Grn + Grn / WHITE windings for what I understand to be the heaters. This measured to be 6.63VAC. I understand this to mean that this part of the transformer is also functioning correctly.
1736946783241.png


Then as a suggestion from you lovely folks, I connected back up the 370V tap, while leaving the 680 Ohm resistor cut off from the circuit. I had one probe (yellow) at the top of C27, and the other to ground (blue). This measured 411 VDC. From my understanding, that means that this part of the circuit is working and supplying the 370V needed, thus that tap / part of the circuit isn't dragging it down.
1736947004171.png


And then as a final check this AM, for BlueVUMeters, they wanted to see where the following wire was connected to. The wire in questions:
1736947641358.png

This is where that wire ends up. This I'm suspicious of as it does not quite appear to be the wiring that is in the diagram, but I also don't remember touching this as I believe this is an original wire.
1736947777677.png1736948236774.png


This is where I am at right now.
My next steps from your suggestions overnight are to:
* Measure the resistance of the windings between RED + RED/WHITE and GRN + GRN/WHITE just to confirm resistance of windings.
* Check the wiring in person and poke around the 340V tap and where that ends up on V5.

Any further help is greatly appreciated. I hope this update helped. If someone would like me to check further voltages, please specify what should and shouldn't be connected to the circuit. Thanks so much all!
 
And on a side note, the Amp sat overnight. I connected my cap tester and bam, it zapped and killed the meter (woops!). Was a good lesson to always discharge those caps even when they have sat. checked and 5V was still present after sitting overnight. Many lessons are being learned :biggrin:
 
This is a great step by step breakdown you created to eliminate confusion of where you are in the troubleshooting process. :rockon:
 
This is where that wire ends up. This I'm suspicious of as it does not quite appear to be the wiring that is in the diagram, but I also don't remember touching this as I believe this is an original wire.

The wiring looks correct, but is not original. So someone has been in there and replaced the wiring for some reason before you.
 
The wiring looks correct, but is not original. So someone has been in there and replaced the wiring for some reason before you.
Interesting. The only reason I didn't think it was correct is because that wire has two resistors connected to it, that then connect to the same tube. That doesn't appear in the schematic unless I'm missing it. Anywho It's not something I changed so I think we are still good on that front.

Any ideas what I should test and measure next? My next thought is maybe now that I know the 370 tap is being fed and not being dragged down, to reconnect R78, disconnect R79, and test to see if the 350 tap is the one dragging things down?

1736952345214.png
 
Measure the DC resistance between the high voltage secondary wires (between red and red/white wires) next. You'll need to disconnect red and red/white from the rest of the circuit again, if needed, to properly do this test. My unit is in storage, so not readily available, but I'm thinking you should measure something like 15 - 30 ohms. ish.

The testing so far only proves that unloaded there's nothing pulling the voltage doubler output down. That's necessary testing but not sufficient to prove the doubler power supply and the output stage don't have problems. That's a clue however in my thinking--that the issues you are seeing might be related to the output stage or still possibly the power supply. So methodology-wise, unless you have some big 50W power resistors to manually test the power transformer and the voltage doubler output, the general next step in my mind is to reconnect ONLY the output stage so you get some load via the output tubes and measure again...but we're not ready to jump there yet until you do those tests above.
 
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Reconnect the leads to the power supply (including the resistors). Keep all tubes pulled. Measure the 370, 350, 340, 330, and 170 VDC taps. And see if the voltages you get are relative to the drop seen across the taps. Since 370 point = 408VDC on your unit, each tap point should be around 110% higher than the schematic. But they must drop appropriately.
 
Measure the 370, 350, 340, 330, and 170 VDC taps.
Don't forget however, that with no load on any of those taps there will be no voltage drop across any of those voltage dropping resistors in between those taps, so that if all those circuits are wired correctly, you would essentially measure +400V DC on each and every one of those taps--under no load.

That being said, at some point here soon, you will want to do exactly that test...we're just not quite ready for you to do that test...yet. (IMO).
 
Interesting. The only reason I didn't think it was correct is because that wire has two resistors connected to it, that then connect to the same tube. That doesn't appear in the schematic unless I'm missing it. Anywho It's not something I changed so I think we are still good on that front.

The two resistors (R29, R62) go to each plate within the 12au7 (one for each channel). I'm also curious about the black wire you have running from the 330V tap. Black is usually used for ground wiring - on my amp that lead is a dark blue wire. Just want to make sure you haven't mixed that one up with a ground connection?
 
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