Shure M91ED / Shure M95ED

[dodog]

You may well be on to something here, although I had similarly disappointing results using it on three different tables. Perhaps the mismatch is at the phono preamp. Whatever, I'm happily digging my SASsy M91ED!

I think I had the reverse effect that you had. I upgraded from a M75/SAS to a V15-IV/SAS and the difference wasn't subtle. Perhaps my capacitance is in the right range for the V15 and not the M75. I'm not complaining though, having the M75/SAS as a backup isn't such a bad thing.

 

[beatcomber]

I think I had the reverse effect that you had. I upgraded from a M75/SAS to a V15-IV/SAS and the difference wasn't subtle. Perhaps my capacitance is in the right range for the V15 and not the M75. I'm not complaining though, having the M75/SAS as a backup isn't such a bad thing.

It could also be that I just didn't like the leaner nature of the V15-IV?

 

[dodog]

It could also be that I just didn't like the leaner nature of the V15-IV?

Different Strokes! I thought the V15 sounded much more lush and "round". I don't know how else to describe it. I'm quite happy.

 

[beatcomber]

Different Strokes! I thought the V15 sounded much more lush and "round". I don't know how else to describe it. I'm quite happy.

Now THAT is interesting!

 

[NoTransistors]

I can listen to my M91ED all day, and find little wrong with it. If I then switch to my ML140HE, I cannot go back to the former cartridge. Every step up the food-chain should provide improved results.

 

[Jursa]

Thanks for all the opinions.

 

[Muddywaters]

Thought I'd ask in here rather than start a new thread so here goes...

I'm using the PFANSTIEHL 4761 currently on my M91ed and have read some postings on various sites espousing the EVG M91ed styli and can find what I think are EVG versions on the auction site with a yellow housing. Is that the EVG referred to by some?

There also is a seller with a yellow bodied stylus that is claimed to be a Nagaoka is there a difference between the EVG and this?

Anyone here have first hand experience with any of these?

 

[boreas]

I'm using the PFANSTIEHL 4761 currently on my M91ed and have read some postings on various sites espousing the EVG M91ed styli and can find what I think are EVG versions on the auction site with a yellow housing. Is that the EVG referred to by some?

Yes, the EVG styli are yellow. All of the Pfanstiehl 4761-DE styli are black like yours. Several of the vendors on eBay actually use photos of the styli in the EVG box. To be safe, I'd just buy one of those, though others, like Andydeals, sell both EVG and Pfanstiehl.

There also is a seller with a yellow bodied stylus that is claimed to be a Nagaoka is there a difference between the EVG and this?

I've seen that and it's interesting. I don't know whether Nagaoka still makes generic replacements or whether that's old stock. Also don't know the specs - so I just wrote to the seller.

Anyone here have first hand experience with any of these?

I have 3 M91EDs, two with Pfanstiehls and one with an EVG, bought the EVG and one of the Pfanstiehls new. I think the two styli are very decent and quite similar. I do give the edge to the EVG (JICO-made, I think) in terms of the upper end and clarity but only just. I'd be happy with either.

Well, that was quick! I just heard from the seller of that Tonar (Nagaoka) stylus. He doesn't know the specs and suggested that I contact Nagaoka. :sigh: But he did tell me that he buys these as needed from the Canadian distributor. (Still could be new or NOS, I guess.)

John

 

[Muddywaters]

Thanks John, I know there are plenty of folks here on AK that like the M91ed.

I did order the EVG from carolsneedles a couple of minutes ago. I'm contemplating trying the Nagoaka version also. Maybe someone here will chime in with some experience with it or maybe I'll have to be the guinea pig. :scratch2: I'll do some comparing between the Pfanstiehl and the EVG before ordering the Nagoaka.

 

[AvFan]

Full Circle: Back to the M91ED

My first TT was a Pioneer PL-12DII with a M91ED that I purchased in the mid-70s. I always enjoyed the Shure but I had no way to compare it to other cartridges. Yesterday I replaced my Ortofon 2M Blue on my SL-1200 (fully stock) with a M91ED to give it a listen. The Shure came from a TT I purchased a few months ago so my only investment was a replacement Hi-Track stylus (JICO?) I purchased from LPGear.

Well, WOW! The M91ED has very nice bass and mids. It is lacking in fine detail but it is no slouch in that category either and it does not fatigue me like the 2M Blue has on occasion. It is going to stay on my SL-1200 for a while to check performance on new and older records.

I've got some questions though:

I've searched and read a post that said the compliance of the High Track stylus was 22 and another said 25. Anyone know the compliance of the High Track stylus?​

I've read lots of posts complimentary of the JICO SAS stylus on the M91 body. Will the JICO SAS stylus improve the high end detail without sacrificing the bass and mids?​

Before plunking down a lot of money for the SAS stylus I want to make sure its compliance matches the arm on my SL-1200. Does anybody know the compliance of the JICO SAS stylus?​

Thanks and now back to listening!

 

[Muddywaters]

The Jico SAS has been on my radar as well. I'm using one in a Shure VST III which was a great improvement to me over the stock stylus. Much better top end definition. Whether or not my experience with the VST III/Jico would translate or not to the M91ED is a good q. Likely I would think, yes but maybe someone with direct experience will comment.

I've done some more searching and Turntableneedles has a "Jico" sourced 761-DED stylus for cheap. I sent Steve an email about it since the description reads:

• Now Shipping Jico Brand .3 x .7 Elliptical Replacement
• "DED" = .2 X .7 Diamond Elliptical tip needle

It seems if specs are posted on the various replacements they typically list the .3 x .7 (.003 x .007) profile. I wonder how it compares to the Nagaoka or the EVG? Lot's of options :drool:

Anyone know if the original Hi-Track was .2 x7 (.002 x .007)? The download from VE doesn't list the diamond profile.
*CORRECTION* VE's database does list the orignal profile as 0.2 x 0.7mil :sigh:

 

[boreas]

I've done some more searching and Turntableneedles has a "Jico" sourced 761-DED stylus for cheap. I sent Steve an email about it since the description reads:

• Now Shipping Jico Brand .3 x .7 Elliptical Replacement
• "DED" = .2 X .7 Diamond Elliptical tip needle

It seems if specs are posted on the various replacements they typically list the .3 x .7 (.003 x .007) profile. I wonder how it compares to the Nagaoka or the EVG? Lot's of options :drool:

Anyone know if the original Hi-Track was .2 x7 (.002 x .007)? The download from VE doesn't list the diamond profile.
*CORRECTION* VE's database does list the orignal profile as 0.2 x 0.7mil :sigh:

The original Shure N91ED "Hi Track" was indeed a nude .2 x .7 mil elliptical. On the other hand, both the Pfanstiehl 4761-DE and the EVG PM3138DE are .3 x .7 mil. The same is true for JICO (in case the EVG isn't really a JICO after all). In fact, all JICO ellipticals are .3 x .7 mil.

Nagaoka? I wish I knew. Wish I knew whether it was bonded or nude. I also want to know whether it's a titanium cantilever as suggested by the scant information on their website.

John

 

[Muddywaters]

Nagaoka? I wish I knew. Wish I knew whether it was bonded or nude. I also want to know whether it's a titanium cantilever as suggested by the scant information on their website.

John

John you got me thinking I'll take bullet for the team. I ordered the Nagaoka to check it out and sent them an email off the website inquiring on the diamond profile measurements and cantilever material. I'll report back on any response.

I'd be pretty surprised if it was a ti cantilever though but being nos who knows.

 

[AvFan]

JICO responded to an email I sent them yesterday regarding the compliance of their SAS replacement stylus for the M91ED: 17 to 20 dyne. The effective mass of the SL-1200 arm is 12g and the cartridge is 5.8 g resulting in a resonance of 9 Hz to 8 Hz using the vinyl engine calculator. Looks like a good combination from a resonance standpoint.

 

[beatcomber]

JICO responded to an email I sent them yesterday regarding the compliance of their SAS replacement stylus for the M91ED: 17 to 20 dyne. The effective mass of the SL-1200 arm is 12g and the cartridge is 5.8 g resulting in a resonance of 9 Hz to 8 Hz using the vinyl engine calculator. Looks like a good combination from a resonance standpoint.

No kidding. I wouldn't have expected that.

 

[boreas]

JICO responded to an email I sent them yesterday regarding the compliance of their SAS replacement stylus for the M91ED: 17 to 20 dyne. The effective mass of the SL-1200 arm is 12g and the cartridge is 5.8 g resulting in a resonance of 9 Hz to 8 Hz using the vinyl engine calculator. Looks like a good combination from a resonance standpoint.

I'm loving the Stanton 681EE/Pickering D1200 combo on my 1600 MK2 but I think I just decided on my next stylus purchase.

Thanks for posting that data!

John

 

[ETI_5000]

I don't know whether Nagaoka still makes generic replacements or whether that's old stock.

They do - I did some searching on Japanese-language websites a year or two ago, and got to their Japanese-only website where they sell them direct to Japanese customers. It's a pity I didn't bookmark it, since I haven't been able to find it recently, but it was very hard to navigate, as I was reading it via a translation site which wasn't particularly stable. I do remember that they had replacements for many different brands, including some obscure ones that others don't seem to cover. They were by far the largest of the Japanese stylus makers (70% of the market in the 80's), and used to make them for many other brands on an OEM basis.

 

[boreas]

They do - I did some searching on Japanese-language websites a year or two ago, and got to their Japanese-only website where they sell them direct to Japanese customers. It's a pity I didn't bookmark it, since I haven't been able to find it recently, but it was very hard to navigate, as I was reading it via a translation site which wasn't particularly stable. I do remember that they had replacements for many different brands, including some obscure ones that others don't seem to cover. They were by far the largest of the Japanese stylus makers (70% of the market in the 80's), and used to make them for many other brands on an OEM basis.

Man, would I like to see a complete listing!

Didn't they make the HE and MR styli for Shure and the Stereohedrons for Stanton/Pickering?

I have two M91EDcartridges (just sold one on a PL-510), each with essentially new generics. Maybe I should get another body and try the Nagaoka.

John

 

[Muddywaters]

Man, would I like to see a complete listing!

Didn't they make the HE and MR styli for Shure and the Stereohedrons for Stanton/Pickering?

I have two M91EDcartridges (just sold one on a PL-510), each with essentially new generics. Maybe I should get another body and try the Nagaoka.

John

John you got me thinking I'll take bullet for the team. I ordered the Nagaoka to check it out and sent them an email off the website inquiring on the diamond profile measurements and cantilever material. I'll report back on any response.

I'd be pretty surprised if it was a ti cantilever though but being nos who knows.

Save your money on the Nagaoka from epay. I received the one I ordered today. It looks identical to the stylus I got from carolsneedles.

It has the same black mark on the cantilever. Maybe Nagaoka makes the evg yellow styli that some suggest could be a Jico?

Haven't tried listening to it yet but thought I'd get back to the thread and post the info. I haven't received any reply from Nagaoka on the email I sent asking about this stylus.

 

[boreas]

Save your money on the Nagaoka from epay. I received the one I ordered today. It looks identical to the stylus I got from carolsneedles.

It has the same black mark on the cantilever. Maybe Nagaoka makes the evg yellow styli that some suggest could be a Jico?

Haven't tried listening to it yet but thought I'd get back to the thread and post the info. I haven't received any reply from Nagaoka on the email I sent asking about this stylus.

Well, that's not good news. I was hoping that they were something perhaps a cut above the EVG, JICO and Pfanstiehl generics. Please do give us your listening impressions. Also, is the cantilever the same as the EVG? Same thickness and general type of construction?

I just contacted that seller to see whether he had N75ED/T2 and N95ED replacements from Tonar/Nagaoka and it turns out he does. I could use one of each but....... Thirty-six clams is a lot for an EVG everyone else sells for less than half that price.

Oh, and speaking of the N75, I'm seeing EVG generics on the auction site with brown plastic. If the color is any indication, and I think it is, these are replacements for the N75EC and track between 2.0 & 4.0 grams so, caveat emptor.

John