ADS 1230 or ESS 1a
- Thread starter Squirrely
- Start date
essNeff
Active Member
Hi Stan,
Yes I installed new PR's just last week. I have them weighted @ 42 grams for now. The next upgrade will be recapping with Audyn caps I have ordered.
I also finished recapping my Frankenspeakers with Mundorf MKP 250 caps.
The original caps were mostly out of spec @35.6-36.3uf and 11-12uf. Only one was @ 10.5uf . My initial impression is that they sound MUCH more dynamic.
I also set the Heil back 1/1/4" for time alignment and weighted the PR's @ 42 grams. I also made up a set of foam wings for them.
As this set is a test bed of sorts I can try anything my little heart desires on them. I'll keep my 1b's stock as I believe they should remain faithful to the original design for antiquities sake.
Attachments
I added about 6.5 grams to my passives. They had no weight before I glued washers to them. Reading about how you guys are adding weight I figured some of these numbers didn’t make sense to me. On the 6th page of this thread EssNeff states he/you added 100grams. I thought this was a typo so. I figured he must have meant 100 grains (GRAINS) so I converted 100 grains to grams and came up with 6.47989 grams. I used a washer that was close to 6.5 grams. Pretty scientific for sure. The speakers sound good but I have no idea if they can sound better with more or less weight.
Stan man, are you adding 2.2 grams to a passive that already has weight?
Stan man, are you adding 2.2 grams to a passive that already has weight?
No, the replacements were not weighted. Now that I have them in a more "ideal" distance than when just acquired them, 11 feet away, as apposed to "near field" six feet away, which allows the speakers bass to open up. Not weighted, the bass was obviously boomy slower and laid back. Now the speakers are more coherent with better and faster and tighter mid bass ,which in turn, adds body to the lower mids of the AMT. This is critical. Add a little or subtract till two drivers as closely as possible sound as one.
I guess I might be too heavy with the addition of 6.5 grams. I may try removing the washers I glued on and give your try lighter. I suppose I will give 2 grams a try. This may be enough of a weight differencial from my current 6.5 so the difference is obvious. I am concerned that subtle weight changes may be harder for my ear to distinguish. It's like shooting hoops. If the first one is off the back rim I consider a miss off the front rim a good initial adjustment. With a basket ball, if I hit the middle I will know it imediately. With this kind of adjustment I think I well recognize the misses clearly and then refine towarde the middle ground.
It will be a while before I mess with it though. I have too much music to enjoy right now.
It will be a while before I mess with it though. I have too much music to enjoy right now.
essNeff
Active Member
You guys are right. The original weight applied was in grains. I didn't realize that the small scale I used could even weigh in grains so I assumed the g on the readout was grams. No real harm since I intended to work my way up in weights anyway.
Mea Culpa!
I started with the wing-nut which was 6.5 GRAMS (100 Grains).
I've worked it up to 42 GRAMS at this point.
The moving mass of the PR is 88 GRAMS.
The moving mass of the Cone passive is 250 GRAMS.
You can see the big difference.
I was told that 100 grams of weight added would tune the cabinet to fs 27.
DC GOLD which markets a version of the new AMT uses 42 GRAMS on their radiators. This was why I started small and worked up. It's a personal preference as to how it sounds with the dampening added. In any case dampening should definitely be added.
I was under the impression that resistors didn't need replacement unless they were "cooked". They are certainly cheap enough to replace. I did not know that they affected the sound that much.
I'm sorry for the confusion I've caused.
Mea Culpa!
I started with the wing-nut which was 6.5 GRAMS (100 Grains).
I've worked it up to 42 GRAMS at this point.
The moving mass of the PR is 88 GRAMS.
The moving mass of the Cone passive is 250 GRAMS.
You can see the big difference.
I was told that 100 grams of weight added would tune the cabinet to fs 27.
DC GOLD which markets a version of the new AMT uses 42 GRAMS on their radiators. This was why I started small and worked up. It's a personal preference as to how it sounds with the dampening added. In any case dampening should definitely be added.
I was under the impression that resistors didn't need replacement unless they were "cooked". They are certainly cheap enough to replace. I did not know that they affected the sound that much.
I'm sorry for the confusion I've caused.
Last edited:
No problem here essNeff. I put 100 grams in my hand and figured there must be a mistake. I knew you were not that far out of the ball park. 100 grains made sense when I converted it to grams so I assumed that is what you meant. 6.5 grams seems to work very well. I may not futz with it any more. I am enjoying them too much.
I started this thread with the idea of comparing the ADS 1230 to the ESS AMT1a so I could gage what the strengths and drawbacks where of the two speakers. I have been with the ESS for a while now and, for me, these are the speakers I am staying with in my listening room. The ADS will still get a lot of play in the living room. At some point I will recap the crossovers in the ADS and compare again. They seem to go deeper in base with the two 8 inch woofers and the mids are creamy and smooth but I doubt they will ever keep up with the ESS for detail and soundstage. I love my AMT 1a’s!!!
I started this thread with the idea of comparing the ADS 1230 to the ESS AMT1a so I could gage what the strengths and drawbacks where of the two speakers. I have been with the ESS for a while now and, for me, these are the speakers I am staying with in my listening room. The ADS will still get a lot of play in the living room. At some point I will recap the crossovers in the ADS and compare again. They seem to go deeper in base with the two 8 inch woofers and the mids are creamy and smooth but I doubt they will ever keep up with the ESS for detail and soundstage. I love my AMT 1a’s!!!
essNeff
Active Member
Thanks Squirrely,
Did you recap your 1's? Did you change out the resistors?
Don't be afraid to add more weight to the PR's. It is well worth it.
Less mass faster and thinner, more mass, weightier and phatter. It's a matter of preference and room and amp matching.
Aren't the 1as a 10 inch woofer?
Yes, the resistor matters, in this case , very much. Clean as possible signal for the AMT.
Neff, those 33s are small. Even the Daytons I have , but haven't installed are larger.
Fortunate for me, with the design of the Khorns, I'm able to leave these two, (my now two favorite) speakers out at the same time and just easily switch out between the two.
Aren't the 1as a 10 inch woofer?
Yes, the resistor matters, in this case , very much. Clean as possible signal for the AMT.
Neff, those 33s are small. Even the Daytons I have , but haven't installed are larger.
Fortunate for me, with the design of the Khorns, I'm able to leave these two, (my now two favorite) speakers out at the same time and just easily switch out between the two.
essNeff
Active Member
I can't honestly say.
I made multiple changes concurrently. Definitely a Cardinal Sin when trying to assess the changes made. Drilling the holes for the new position of the Heil necessitated removal of the Xo's. So I used the opportunity to add more internal bracing and sound deadening foam to the walls. When you add this to a recap and time alignment, it would be impossible to answer. The recap is by far the most important probably followed by the internal additions. For time alignment ?????????
They do sound great though (better than my 1b's). Maybe when I recap the 1b's they will sound as good.
The bass is MUCH tighter with the added weight.
I made multiple changes concurrently. Definitely a Cardinal Sin when trying to assess the changes made. Drilling the holes for the new position of the Heil necessitated removal of the Xo's. So I used the opportunity to add more internal bracing and sound deadening foam to the walls. When you add this to a recap and time alignment, it would be impossible to answer. The recap is by far the most important probably followed by the internal additions. For time alignment ?????????
They do sound great though (better than my 1b's). Maybe when I recap the 1b's they will sound as good.
The bass is MUCH tighter with the added weight.
