Vintage CD players

[Aydin]

Having just acquired a Philips CD650 for a sensible sum of £20 ($30-ish)...
Now, I bought this on the basis of the CDM/2 transport, TDA1541 and ground plane PCB (well, and big heatsink sticking out the back ), not on anyone else's opinion of the player. I tested it with headphones to see if it worked, then hit the 'net looking for mods. I "corrected" a few errors by the original designers, and tweaked this & that until it looked half decent (new output caps, bypass caps all over the show, separate voltage regulator for the oversampler)... THEN I put it into my main system and actually listened to it.

Best CD player I've ever heard.

From this, I conclude there are some very good vintage CD Players out there indeed. Maybe they're not as "detailed" or "revealing", but damn, they can still sound nice! - Isn't that what's important here?

And, of course, there are a massive numer of mods, not just for specific players but for just about anything with a "vintage" DAC in, since so much is known by the general tweaking public about the older chipsets.

I could draw an equating line between people ignoring the better vintage CDPs as being any good, and those at the dawn of transistors whom believed only the new technology could be any good... And how wrong they were...

 

[lorne]

A Perspective on the High End Then and Now

I quite agree that SOME top of the line older units may be able to hold their own.

I am wondering if a look at the budget players can shed some light on what our friend has said above. I'll name some I've owned:

Sony 222ES - c. 1986

Sansui alpha607i - I forget ... late 80's?

NAD -502 - 1995

Marantz 6000OSE late 90's and still being sold as new even a couple of years ago here in Japan

They all represent something in the range of the same price bracket taking into account inflation ... blah-blah. It should be noted that all these players were well-regarded when they were introduced. The Sony had some benefits of trickle-down from the high end ES series — good, thoughtful engineering. The same applied to the Sansui; it was the poor cousin of the fabulous 907. Go to HiFiDo and see what those still command on the market — if you can find one. The NAD got splendid reviews and came close to being a giant killer in the opinion of some enthusiasts. The Marantz also had excellent reviews, and it was used as a platform for considerable modification.

The point: not any really startling differences. Each had a character of their own. Fifteen to seventeen years variance among them, and we are left with a field of personal preferences (IMHO) as opposed to a clear demarcation in performance. I cannot say exactly what this means to the hi-end, but I suspect that success of one model over the other may have been in the finer points of engineering. And this may not have had so much to do with whether or not any certain genius was responsible for any particular design as much as how any specific design team managed to coordinate their respective bits of input. Of course the bean counters and the board of directors always have a definite effect too.

There seems to have been a curious role for engineering. If the process of inception, design, execution and production were allowed to proceed in the best possible way, engineering and the management of manufacturing may have been so trump the strides that were being made in chip technology. Out of the hundreds of models made over two decades, some were obvious triumphs while others were just .... just players that were more or less expensive ... that were more or less better or worse, but not much better or worse.

If I were confronted with the choice of having to replace a budget CD player today I'd skip to a $150 DVD player. If I were aiming for the high end, I'd go for a more expensive DVD player and a wambunctious DAC unit. But, that's another story.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Hi,

I own the Magnavox version of the Philips CD-101. It plays well to this day (even reads CD-R well). 14 bit oversampled to 16 bit. CDM-0 Die Cast swing arm pro transport. Made in the Netherlands.

 

[Tinman]

I have a collection of philips based players, ALL of them still work fine. The oldest is a CD-100 PRE_PRODUCTION sample! :thmbsp: It has no part numbers inside either. CDM-0 mech and 2 TDA-1540 DAC's.

Also own the CDP-101 from sony and a few others. But my favorites are the philips based machines. My Studer A727 is my workhorse. CDM-1 and TDA1541 DAC. Nothing remarkable, but built like a battleship.

There's a lot of life left in some of the vintage CDP's yet. Though I must agree that there were many lousy players made too. This does hold true especially today with profit margins being the highest criteria in designing a product. Advanced technology or not.

Gimme a veteran any day. :thmbsp:

 

[Dr. Music]

If I were confronted with the choice of having to replace a budget CD player today I'd skip to a $150 DVD player. If I were aiming for the high end, I'd go for a more expensive DVD player and a wambunctious DAC unit. But, that's another story.

I'm curious as to what recommendations Akers might make in that regard? What DVD players would be good choices to use in lieu of a CD player, both in the $150 range and the higher end units? There are soooo many on the market these days.

Hell, in my own household there are several inexpensive DVD units; three Sonys, a Toshiba, two Philips and a 5 disc Panasonic model......

 

[inspired]

There seems to be a bit of support for the Sony PS3 as a decent platform for CD. You get free wi-fi networkability if you have a digital mp3 collection on a computer hard drive or flash stick, ipod connectivity, and a great DVD / Blu-Ray player to boot.

 

[lorne]

I'm curious as to what recommendations Akers might make in that regard? What DVD players would be good choices to use in lieu of a CD player, both in the $150 range and the higher end units?

Therein we are in danger of floundering off-topic. If you type Tosh or Toshiba into the search window you should get a good start.

 

[Dr. Music]

Therein lies a recommendation

 

[Calcapt737]

I have a Kyrocera 710cx which I think sounds fantastic. From what I have read they are suppose to be one of the best vintage ones out there. I bought it new in 1986 along with the rest of my Kyrocera system and ElectroVoice 35i speakers and it all sounds great. Have never had any problems with the deck dispite the fact that it, along with everything else, sat in a closet for 11 years.

 

[andyc]

I have a Marantz CD-54 (circa 1984) that I love to bits, It's got a very "warm" sound to it and I use it as my main cd source. But my biggest fear is once the laser goes in it what do I do??? Does anyone here have suggestions of replacement lasers either old or new that will not compromise its original sound quality? Appreciate any feedback that I can get.
Thanks

 

[guiller]

I have a Marantz CD-54 (circa 1984) that I love to bits, It's got a very "warm" sound to it and I use it as my main cd source. But my biggest fear is once the laser goes in it what do I do??? Does anyone here have suggestions of replacement lasers either old or new that will not compromise its original sound quality? Appreciate any feedback that I can get.
Thanks

Hi Andyc:

According to http://www.marantzphilips.nl/the_complete_d_a_dac_converter_list/ , the Marantz CD-54 has a Phililps CDM-1 laser unit. As far as I know, you would have to replace the entire laser mechanism, not just the pickup. Since those mechanisms are not available as spare parts, you could try fiding a donor CDP with the same laser mechanism and few hours of actual usage. The good news is that many CDPs share that mechanism ( you could find them using the above link).

All the best

 

[andyc]

Thanks guiller for your response and the link! It amazes me that every time I've requested help or advice on this site that someone has responded promptly (I love this site), thanks again!

 

[Tinman]

Andyc,

Fortunately the CDM-1 is nearly indestructable. Most likely you will have to oil the spindle motor and change a few capacitors on the mech before the laser ever dies.

And even IF, it's still possible to find donors.

 

[lorne]

Does anyone here have suggestions of replacement lasers either old or new that will not compromise its original sound quality?

Looks like guiller is right. The CDM-1 module seems to be a pretty rare bit of kit. There seems to be a family of similar parts, but any attempts to adapt one for another may be a bag of snakes. Here is a part from what is being claimed was a working machine:

http://cgi.ebay.com.my/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300283124053

Note 'no returns'.

 

[ke4mcl]

i have a cdp101 from sony with its original box. disk drawer tray quit opening (maybe a slipping belt) but otherwise it works and doesn't sound that bad for early CD. its built like a tank. aside from the novelty though i would have to side with most folks on here and say use an old player with an external dac if you're really looking for good sound from an old cd player.

 

[Aydin]

i would have to side with most folks on here and say use an old player with an external dac if you're really looking for good sound from an old cd player.

... And don't want to mod it to hell and back

Has anyone had any luck actually attempting to replace just the laser within the pickup, before?
I did this as an experiment with an old non-working Hitachi CD player (completely destroyed loading mechanism, half dead laser...) And, well... After some tweaking it did work, but I wasn't using anything remotely like the original diode. Wouldn't play CD-Rs at all.

With a bit more effort, could this be the way forwards for those with a lot of watch repair equipment laying around and dead vintage CD players?

 

[Tinman]

i have a cdp101 from sony with its original box. disk drawer tray quit opening (maybe a slipping belt) but otherwise it works and doesn't sound that bad for early CD. its built like a tank. aside from the novelty though i would have to side with most folks on here and say use an old player with an external dac if you're really looking for good sound from an old cd player.

The CDP-101 has a cam in the tray mechanism that gums up thanks to sony's glue lube. Open it, flip it upside down, take the cover off and look at all the gummed up gears. Get that goop out of there and re-lube with a little lithium grease. The thing will run like new.

 

[Dr. Music]

Sony CDP-650 ESII arrived today.

She is a thing of beauty! I'm just starting to access the old gal. Heavy? You bet. Very accurate sound, deep, clean, strong. Separation is phenomenal. I think I expected something more subdued than what I'm hearing; what I'm hearing is really detailed in a way I'm not used to these days. Transport is smooth as butter and the unit is in extremely good condition given it's age. MUCH more listening is necessary of course. Methinks I could live with this one for a while........ senior or not, this is a very musical CD player.......

Please excuse bachelor's window covering and impromptu shelving .....

 

[Dr. Music]

Lorne- once this baby shows up I'll pull out the screwdrivers and camera..... we will investigate with bigger and better resolution as well as more angles! My Google efforts have been pretty pathetic in regards to this wee beast.....

A few nudies of the CDP-650ES DII.....

 

[Tinman]

Very nice! Looks like it's in good shape. I would be curious to see the underside of the boards, if you ever feel inclined to remove the bottom cover. I wonder if that glue is there.