I called Rick at ESS about the 3-C crossover. He had not heard of the unit so he talked to others at ESS. When we talked again this afternoon he informed me that the 3-C was designed to work with the orrigional electrostatic pannal speakers that where produced when the coumpany first started. It is not designed for use with the Heil setup.
ADS 1230 or ESS 1a
- Thread starter Squirrely
- Start date
I am going to pick up the speakers tomorrow. I have 35wpc from a freshly rebuilt Dynaco ST-70. I understand the 1a's my sound at their best with buckets of power. I can double my power to the speakers using an ESS Searies Eclips 2241AM crossover by adding in my Eico hf-87. Any thoughts about this idea? Dose anyone have experience with the ESS Searies Eclips crossover?
ESS did make a electronic crossover for the AMT1's.
If I had access to one, I would surely give it a try.
Don't be afraid to use the Dynaco-I'm sure it fine.
What I mentioned was my personal experience, and people have good luck with tubes amps with these, and the AMT3's.
I interesting read I thought that might interest you:
http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/138/index.html
First impressions are in. There is the good and the bad. Some say any speaker represents a compromise of qualities and I believe that is true. For those who don’t want to read the details I will let you off by just saying, I love them.
I don’t like saying something is bad because most subjective evaluations don’t fit the good and bad oversimplification. I have found one bad thing with this speaker. The binding posts SUCK! I have built Canare cables that bring out the best of my ADS speakers but with these ESS speakers I am back in the stone age of basic 16 gage stranded wire for now. I will see what I can do about this by either changing out the binding posts or building wire for these speakers. I know I can go to 14 gage and maybe 12 and then simply tin the end that inserts to the post. That would be the easiest way to go.
That is the only bad thing I can find because the rest my evaluation is based on personal preference and how these speakers fit in with the rest of my gear. I am used to more base response from my ADS 1230’s but I may get more base response from these 1a’s by putting them up on a platform. I think a 6” wood base might do the trick. Rick at ESS says that changing the woofer and passive as well as moving the Heil back 1 ¼ “ represents all the upgrades they have made to the 1a to arrive at the Limited Edition speaker they show on their website. He states that these changes will improve base response. It may be worth a try.
There is no doubt that my ADS speakers reproduce the human voice better than any speaker I have ever heard. To make this assessment I listened to Alison Krauss and Union Station Live. Alison’s voice seems more real through the ADS but the ESS bring something that the ADS don’t. If there is a hint of gravel in Alison’s silky smooth tone the ESS will deliver that too. Alison’s natural vibrato was very clear through the ESS speakers. More so than through the ADS. Because I am listening to music this evening on CD I may have a completely different experience with an LP. I also listened to Sailing to Philadelphia by Mark Knopflier. James Taylor is featured on this song and it is another good song to listen for how the human voice is represented. The ADS are smoother and lifelike but the ESS deliver detail. The song Baloney Again from the same CD has some deep base tones that I love from my ADS speakers. Those low tones just where not there with the 1a’s.
The ESS 1a’s come through in another way that makes these speakers very fulfilling. These are keepers in my collection. The first CD I put on was Pink Floyd Animals. The detail and dynamics of the Heil tweeter where in my face and shocking. This speaker not only conveys all the instrumentation and vocal performance but I found myself appreciating the work of the sound engineers like never before. AS I have moved up with better and better quality equipment I often notice I can understand lyrics I always wondered about. The ESS speakers bring all that detail so every utterance is heard and understood, but the mix that was under the control of the sound engineer is so incredibly dynamic I was shocked. I love a speaker that provides a good soundstage but Pink Floyd goes off! The **** was flying all around the room! I am keeping these speakers! These are Rock and Roll Speakers on Steroids! Another real pleasure is Blue Grass music through these speakers. Right now I am listening to the Pizza Tapes. This features Jerry Garcia playing banjo with David Grisman on mandolin and Tony Rice playing guitar. These ESS speakers seem perfect for this music. The string attacks are so clear and detailed I am completely blown away.
The upshot of all this is that I have exactly what I was hoping for. This speaker is very different from my ADS 1230’s. It is likely that I will always have a pair of ADS 1230’s unless I come across 1530’s. I will also likely have these ESS 1a’s around unless I come across some ESS 3’s.
Equipment used:
Dynaco ST-70
Audio Research SP-8
California Audio Labs DX-2
I don’t like saying something is bad because most subjective evaluations don’t fit the good and bad oversimplification. I have found one bad thing with this speaker. The binding posts SUCK! I have built Canare cables that bring out the best of my ADS speakers but with these ESS speakers I am back in the stone age of basic 16 gage stranded wire for now. I will see what I can do about this by either changing out the binding posts or building wire for these speakers. I know I can go to 14 gage and maybe 12 and then simply tin the end that inserts to the post. That would be the easiest way to go.
That is the only bad thing I can find because the rest my evaluation is based on personal preference and how these speakers fit in with the rest of my gear. I am used to more base response from my ADS 1230’s but I may get more base response from these 1a’s by putting them up on a platform. I think a 6” wood base might do the trick. Rick at ESS says that changing the woofer and passive as well as moving the Heil back 1 ¼ “ represents all the upgrades they have made to the 1a to arrive at the Limited Edition speaker they show on their website. He states that these changes will improve base response. It may be worth a try.
There is no doubt that my ADS speakers reproduce the human voice better than any speaker I have ever heard. To make this assessment I listened to Alison Krauss and Union Station Live. Alison’s voice seems more real through the ADS but the ESS bring something that the ADS don’t. If there is a hint of gravel in Alison’s silky smooth tone the ESS will deliver that too. Alison’s natural vibrato was very clear through the ESS speakers. More so than through the ADS. Because I am listening to music this evening on CD I may have a completely different experience with an LP. I also listened to Sailing to Philadelphia by Mark Knopflier. James Taylor is featured on this song and it is another good song to listen for how the human voice is represented. The ADS are smoother and lifelike but the ESS deliver detail. The song Baloney Again from the same CD has some deep base tones that I love from my ADS speakers. Those low tones just where not there with the 1a’s.
The ESS 1a’s come through in another way that makes these speakers very fulfilling. These are keepers in my collection. The first CD I put on was Pink Floyd Animals. The detail and dynamics of the Heil tweeter where in my face and shocking. This speaker not only conveys all the instrumentation and vocal performance but I found myself appreciating the work of the sound engineers like never before. AS I have moved up with better and better quality equipment I often notice I can understand lyrics I always wondered about. The ESS speakers bring all that detail so every utterance is heard and understood, but the mix that was under the control of the sound engineer is so incredibly dynamic I was shocked. I love a speaker that provides a good soundstage but Pink Floyd goes off! The **** was flying all around the room! I am keeping these speakers! These are Rock and Roll Speakers on Steroids! Another real pleasure is Blue Grass music through these speakers. Right now I am listening to the Pizza Tapes. This features Jerry Garcia playing banjo with David Grisman on mandolin and Tony Rice playing guitar. These ESS speakers seem perfect for this music. The string attacks are so clear and detailed I am completely blown away.
The upshot of all this is that I have exactly what I was hoping for. This speaker is very different from my ADS 1230’s. It is likely that I will always have a pair of ADS 1230’s unless I come across 1530’s. I will also likely have these ESS 1a’s around unless I come across some ESS 3’s.
Equipment used:
Dynaco ST-70
Audio Research SP-8
California Audio Labs DX-2
Congrats on getting just that much closer to your ultimate sound system. Glad they are up to your expectations and then some.
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SleeperSupra
Super Member
I was toying with that idea too.
Welcome To the Heil Club My Freind!
Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed review, as even for us dyed in the wool Heil addicts, thoughtful and detailed opinions are not only much welcome, but very helpful as well.
It's fun to listen to others first experience with the Great Heil.
I can still remember in detail my first listen, with a friend years ago,-the place, the room and equipment-the song. We were both blown away and spent 2 hours in the store.
Again awesome review glad you found what you were looking for.
Too bad you aren't closer- I would lend you my 2nd set (once I get it totally done) of AMT3's for awhile.
There are a few AMT3's floating around that side of the country.
Might require a drive to CA-but they seem pretty thick around there.
I was lucky to find 2 pairs in this area-close to MSP, so that helps.
Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed review, as even for us dyed in the wool Heil addicts, thoughtful and detailed opinions are not only much welcome, but very helpful as well.
It's fun to listen to others first experience with the Great Heil.
I can still remember in detail my first listen, with a friend years ago,-the place, the room and equipment-the song. We were both blown away and spent 2 hours in the store.
Again awesome review glad you found what you were looking for.
Too bad you aren't closer- I would lend you my 2nd set (once I get it totally done) of AMT3's for awhile.
There are a few AMT3's floating around that side of the country.
Might require a drive to CA-but they seem pretty thick around there.
I was lucky to find 2 pairs in this area-close to MSP, so that helps.
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Get the driver parameters, and Madisound can design AND build a crossover for you.
Interesting driver.
Looks like you would want it crossed over by 2k or so.
When you look at the AMT3 being crossed over @ 1k, the midbass driver really covers a narrow range, and isn't asked to do too much.
You don't have to worry about and beaming etc at those frequencies.
I have played with a number of different drivers in my AMT3's.
The Eminence Alpha 6A and the stock driver seem to stand out, when using the (basically) stock crossover points.
Looks like you would want it crossed over by 2k or so.
When you look at the AMT3 being crossed over @ 1k, the midbass driver really covers a narrow range, and isn't asked to do too much.
You don't have to worry about and beaming etc at those frequencies.
I have played with a number of different drivers in my AMT3's.
The Eminence Alpha 6A and the stock driver seem to stand out, when using the (basically) stock crossover points.
essNeff
Active Member
Thanks for the response!
I was also considering an "Active XO" for maximum experimentation.
The Active XO could also be used for other projects.
Something like the Behringer DCX 2496 with 3 different types of filters, time
delay settings and choice of slopes from 6db to 48db.
The unit seems to offer a lot of flexibility and problem solving for a reasonable price.
Attachments
Second day:
If there was any doubt, I checked it out by playing No Doubt ‘Rock Steady’. The mix and techno sounds highlight the strength of the ESS 1a’s. I was blown away. The music seemed to swirl around the room. I found myself visually tripping on it. What these speakers do well, they do extremely well. I am listening to Robert Plant ‘Sixty Six to Timbuktu’ now. The midrange weak spot was revealed when listening to the ending of ‘Tall Cool One’. At the end of the song they mix samples from a Lead Zeppelin track and having listened to this recording many times on my ADS speakers there where Jimmy Page contributions that sounded very recessed. There are always trade-offs. It may be difficult to make up for this frequency range with the 1a’s. I am thinking of adding in a sub-woofer for deep base but that may come along after making sure the enclosures are sealed properly and the insulation inside the cabs are not interfering with the woof and passive. Thank you Audiomojo. Good info. I am wondering what gauge wire can be used with these binding posts. Mogami W3103 is 11awg. If it will fit into the ESS binding post I think this might be a good choice for speaker cable. If anyone has suggestions please chime in.
Love these speakers!
If there was any doubt, I checked it out by playing No Doubt ‘Rock Steady’. The mix and techno sounds highlight the strength of the ESS 1a’s. I was blown away. The music seemed to swirl around the room. I found myself visually tripping on it. What these speakers do well, they do extremely well. I am listening to Robert Plant ‘Sixty Six to Timbuktu’ now. The midrange weak spot was revealed when listening to the ending of ‘Tall Cool One’. At the end of the song they mix samples from a Lead Zeppelin track and having listened to this recording many times on my ADS speakers there where Jimmy Page contributions that sounded very recessed. There are always trade-offs. It may be difficult to make up for this frequency range with the 1a’s. I am thinking of adding in a sub-woofer for deep base but that may come along after making sure the enclosures are sealed properly and the insulation inside the cabs are not interfering with the woof and passive. Thank you Audiomojo. Good info. I am wondering what gauge wire can be used with these binding posts. Mogami W3103 is 11awg. If it will fit into the ESS binding post I think this might be a good choice for speaker cable. If anyone has suggestions please chime in.
Love these speakers!
ESSNeff; I see a sub sitting between some 1a’s in one of your pictures. I have never run a sub and could use some info. I am using my Dynaco ST-70. How does the sub wire in? Would I run my right and left channel from my amp to the sub and then out to the speakers? Should I consider 2 subs sitting next to my 1a’s instead of 1 in the middle like you show? What should I look for when shopping for a sub? At what frequency should the sub become active?
Awesome - welcome to the Heil Club! 
I have a 1C and a 3, and yes, the 3s are much better. The midrange hole that is barely there but does exist is completely gone in the 3s. But doing an active crossover Really Helps a lot with that hole, and makes them even more dynamic than they already are. But it can take a bit of work to get it just right.
Also, replacing/upgrading the stock crossover components can make a big difference. I don't recall if you said that was already done or not.
Best of luck, and again, Welcome!
IBJamon
I have a 1C and a 3, and yes, the 3s are much better. The midrange hole that is barely there but does exist is completely gone in the 3s. But doing an active crossover Really Helps a lot with that hole, and makes them even more dynamic than they already are. But it can take a bit of work to get it just right.
Also, replacing/upgrading the stock crossover components can make a big difference. I don't recall if you said that was already done or not.
Best of luck, and again, Welcome!
IBJamon
Thank you IBJamon. These are truly special speakers. I have been listening to them all day and I am not fatigued by them at all. That was one of my concerns coming off the ADS sound. I am adjusting to the ESS just fine. I will look forward to the ADS in the house (my wife’s preference) and having ESS in the glorified man cave.
The crossovers where rebuilt at ESS about a month ago by the previous owner. I was looking into an external crossover made by ESS (2241 Series Eclipse Electronic Crossover). I thought this would also allow me to double the power to the woofers by having a dedicated amplifier for the woofers and another amp for the Heils. I don’t know how to do this though because the 1a’s are not designed for bi-amping. They only have one set of speaker binding posts. I am sure it could be done with the right know how and a soldering iron. I am just now entering that world with amplifiers. Noob extrodanar!
Rick at ESS assures me that the new 12” driver and passive will fill the hole and extend the base response but I have yet to see reviews or get any conformation.
Thanks for your welcome. I am not leaving the ADS club, but I am with ESS for keeps too. It is definitely like the difference between a soft suspension luxury car and a sports car that puts you in touch with every nuance of the road.
I have also thought of picking up some stand-alone Heils and using them with my ADS 1230’s. If it is doable I was thinking of using the 2241 crossover and flipping the speaker separation switch on the ADS then connecting to the low frequency binding posts with one amp and the second amp would drive the Heils. Does it ever end?
I may need Audioholics-Anonymous. I’m scaring myself and I pissed off the wife long ago.
The crossovers where rebuilt at ESS about a month ago by the previous owner. I was looking into an external crossover made by ESS (2241 Series Eclipse Electronic Crossover). I thought this would also allow me to double the power to the woofers by having a dedicated amplifier for the woofers and another amp for the Heils. I don’t know how to do this though because the 1a’s are not designed for bi-amping. They only have one set of speaker binding posts. I am sure it could be done with the right know how and a soldering iron. I am just now entering that world with amplifiers. Noob extrodanar!
Rick at ESS assures me that the new 12” driver and passive will fill the hole and extend the base response but I have yet to see reviews or get any conformation.
Thanks for your welcome. I am not leaving the ADS club, but I am with ESS for keeps too. It is definitely like the difference between a soft suspension luxury car and a sports car that puts you in touch with every nuance of the road.
I have also thought of picking up some stand-alone Heils and using them with my ADS 1230’s. If it is doable I was thinking of using the 2241 crossover and flipping the speaker separation switch on the ADS then connecting to the low frequency binding posts with one amp and the second amp would drive the Heils. Does it ever end?
I may need Audioholics-Anonymous. I’m scaring myself and I pissed off the wife long ago.
Attachments
essNeff
Active Member
I 've wired them in at Speaker level.
I've just finished the build and I wanted to test the low end with and without a small sub. I added 100 grams of weight to the passives to dampen them trying for an Fs of 27hz.
I really like the way they turned out with the damping. More punch then the Pyramids I have upstairs (not dampened now but will soon be!).
The sub was used to see if I could raise the "presence" of the midrange while crossing over @ 80hz to free up the woofer a bit. I will turn the presence dial of the mid up to see if I could notice a difference.
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Thanks essNeff. What did you use for weight and how did you attach it to the passive. My thoughts are to lay strips of duct tape to make a panel of tape then cutting it into a circle. I could then lay a coil of leaded fishing line on the duct tape panel and attach that to the passive. I don't want to ruin the passive though. What I like about this idea is that the tape and fishing line coil would move and flex with the radiator. How did you go about it?
Good job and info on the damping!
Excellent info.
The 1a's I have heard had excellent bass and tight bass-I imagine these were tuned.
You have to remember these have probably been replaced a few times.
My ESS PS1220 passive slabs were goof for about 5 years. granted they followed me in some houses, apartments that didn't have the best climate control.
Squirrely, glad to hear the AMT1a's were a good, solid investment in your audio enjoyment. I appreciated all the great NEW and informative information on these.
I have tried to do the same with my AMT3's-rambling a bit at times-sorry for that-but I really appreciated the thoughtfulness in your post's-from one died in the wool Heil Addict to a new entrant to the club.
Thanks!:thmbsp:
As far as the woofers-I would adjust the passive damping and also fluff out and spread the internal damping out evenly.
Those stock woofers are very good-some also come with a whizzer cone under the dust cap to help transition-which the new woofers do not.
PM member El Seven, he used to work for ESS, and thought the new woofers weren't not as good as many of the older ones.
Excellent info.
The 1a's I have heard had excellent bass and tight bass-I imagine these were tuned.
You have to remember these have probably been replaced a few times.
My ESS PS1220 passive slabs were goof for about 5 years. granted they followed me in some houses, apartments that didn't have the best climate control.
Squirrely, glad to hear the AMT1a's were a good, solid investment in your audio enjoyment. I appreciated all the great NEW and informative information on these.
I have tried to do the same with my AMT3's-rambling a bit at times-sorry for that-but I really appreciated the thoughtfulness in your post's-from one died in the wool Heil Addict to a new entrant to the club.
Thanks!:thmbsp:
As far as the woofers-I would adjust the passive damping and also fluff out and spread the internal damping out evenly.
Those stock woofers are very good-some also come with a whizzer cone under the dust cap to help transition-which the new woofers do not.
PM member El Seven, he used to work for ESS, and thought the new woofers weren't not as good as many of the older ones.
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