Favorite Bourbon

[augustine]

Maker's Mark is my favorite bourbon for regular drinking or mixing. It has wheat instead of rye as its second grain, which gives it a smoother and less hot taste, but is inexpensive enough for everyday use.
W.L.Weller and 1792 brands are my go to for sipping. A bit more expensive, but not extravagant.

 

[jobrewer1983]

They are still aged in barrels but charcoal filtered prior to barreling. Bourbon can only use water by Federal Law for dilution prior to barreling, same with Rye, Malt and Wheat whiskeys - those are the 4 the US TTB regulates. They also have to use new American Oak barrels that are charred inside.

I know this as I work in a distillery - the lab geek.

Tennessee Whiskey is usually sour mash.

Nice, correct me if I am wrong, while they are aged the aging process is something like a year or less as the process is not the same as something like a scotch whiskey? I seem to remember seeing some show on YT explaining that “Tennessee Whiskey” is whiskey that is pressed into a massive drum full of charred oak blocks to speed up the process, that’s why they don’t call it a bourbon or scotch.

I’m probably wrong on that. Lol my point is they generally don’t age them for long?

 

[Mamrak1]

Nice, correct me if I am wrong, while they are aged the aging process is something like a year or less as the process is not the same as something like a scotch whiskey? I seem to remember seeing some show on YT explaining that “Tennessee Whiskey” is whiskey that is pressed into a massive drum full of charred oak blocks to speed up the process, that’s why they don’t call it a bourbon or scotch.

I’m probably wrong on that. Lol my point is they generally don’t age them for long?

Actually Jack Daniels is fed through maple charcoal blocks and by law the whiskey must be aged for 4 years.

 

[jobrewer1983]

Actually Jack Daniels is fed through maple charcoal blocks and by law the whiskey must be aged for 4 years.

Ahh! See I didn’t know that so it’s longer than a year. Thanks for the schooling @Mamrak1

 

[swamppirate]

Nice, correct me if I am wrong, while they are aged the aging process is something like a year or less as the process is not the same as something like a scotch whiskey? I seem to remember seeing some show on YT explaining that “Tennessee Whiskey” is whiskey that is pressed into a massive drum full of charred oak blocks to speed up the process, that’s why they don’t call it a bourbon or scotch.

I’m probably wrong on that. Lol my point is they generally don’t age them for long?

I think the minimum is 4 years....

 

[Grainger49]

The longer it ages the darker it gets. There is a caramel layer in the charred insides of the barrel. The longer it ages the more the liquor leaches this layer from the barrel.

Back in the '70s I made a trip to the JD distillery and they explained this to us on the tour.

 

[HPMguy]

Actually, I believe momentary contact is enough to call it bourbon, but to be straight bourbon it must spend a minimum of two years in the new barrel. Bottled in Bond is more exacting.

As far as my favorite, that would be hard to say as I've not tried them all yet.....

 

[HPMguy]

Ah, you are right. Too much info flowing through my brain these days.

There is some discussion about how long aging improves the flavor and when it starts to degrade -- in my personal opinion, once the alcohol starts to extract things from the un-toasted wood, flavors I don't much care for (white oak sawdust flavor) starts to appear. 12 years is fine, 15 is pushing the limit, and longer than that is bad. Depending, of course....

 

[Oerets]

https://www.seeker.com/7-things-that-make-bourbon-bourbon-and-not-just-whiskey-1765464964.html

Straight, is whiskey not not blended. @ 80* or more and two years old out of new barrels.

 

[audiotemp]

The temperature at which aging occurs is at least as important a factor as the length of aging.

Scotch ages longer because (among other things) the temperatures in the warehouses are lower. Much of the effect of aging for bourbon occurs during summer months, when the warehouses are warmed in the Kentucky sunshine.

Edinburgh, Scotland summer temperature (high) = 60 deg. F
Louisville, Kentucky summer temperature (high) = 85 deg. F

Rum and tequila age even faster (in types that are aged) because of the even warmer climates where those are typically produced. Even "añejo" tequilas can be as little as one year old.

 

[audiotemp]

ABSOLUTELY WRONG. Temp does matter. Lower temps more alcohol is removed from barrels, Higher temp more water. The wood specifically lets water through, I could give you a dissertation on it, if you want, but I think that would bely the issue.

You are forgetting winter temps both in Kentucky and Edinburgh too. Aging doesn't stop.

Aging is not totally independent of temp as it does affect proof and that in turn does directly affect aging and flavor.

Times aging are different and have more to do with what flavor the master distiller wants to produce. Most Tequilas are aged in used barrels and that in turn means they want to round off the flavor not have it as sharp. Same with rum.

Anejo is one to three years (average is 2 yrs), Reposado is 3 months to a year. Extra Anejo is longer than 3 years. This is mandated by the Mexican government.

Aging can be used for many different purposes.

WOW - someone arguing with a person who does this for a living.....

Huh? Temp does matter, we seem to agree.

BTW,
Edinburgh, Scotland winter temperature (high) = 43 deg. F
Louisville, Kentucky winter temperature (high) = 43 deg. F

 

[Grainger49]

Depends. Many times what happens is the color is reabsorbed by the wood only to be replaced by a green wood flavors. The science of aging is very complex. It depends on the quality of the wood - barrel treatment - temperature (cycling or not) - humidity - air flow. Then there is how old the wood was when the barrels were made, how long was the wood dried (kiln or not).

My experience is that Weller 12 is darker than 107 or the standard Weller. Pappy is even darker. These are all one mash bill with different aging times.

 

[HPMguy]

Day length is much different in Scotland than in Kentucky, too! So summer heat is different and winter nights are much longer in Scotland than Kentucky.

There is considerable art in aging spirits, it's not all chemistry (and I'm an analytical chemist, I would know). The origin of the white oak makes a difference, I would suppose where the tree is growing makes a difference, the amount of char (and the Scotch do re-char the barrels, at least in some cases as well as re-make them), location of the rickhouse, location IN the rickhouse, rotation of barrels, it goes on and on.

But the basic chemistry doesn't change, just all the myriad variables. Maker's Mark turns out a very very consistent product, but much of that is by blending guided by a tasting panel, it's not ALL chemistry (yet). Out local Bourbon Society got to select a barrel for our members there, very very good but much different than the regular product.

 

[swamppirate]

In theory yes, in taste no.

Pabst is making a whiskey that way - they just pour through a vat full of wood chips (the vat is made of same wood (Oak) also) and they are calling whiskey.

Bourbon HAS TO BE AGED MINIMUM 2 YEARS, by law. They are changing it because artisan distilleries are using smaller barrels and the contact time does not have to be as long. There is still a minimum, which the TTB is still deciding on.

Does Jefferson’s Ocean hold any weight with supposed speeding of aging process at sea? Seems like it would cause more contact with the barrel innards....

 

[HPMguy]

Lol, mainly because red oak would leak the contents out!

 

[HPMguy]

All the white oaks develop tyloses which plug the xylem elements as the wood becomes heartwood. This makes white oak water resistant and also fungus resistant, both important for making barrels. Red oaks do not, so you can actually blow smoke through a piece of red oak with large vessel elements end to end. Barrel staves always run a little cross grain, so they would leak like crazy. Make good dry barrels, but not for wet ones.

Flavor profile varies by species, and it would be fun to see if the various species in the white oak group produce different flavor profiles -- there are a few I would not use -- the post oak often referred to as 'p.ss oak' in the lumber trade would be an example. Don't remember off the top of my head how many white oak species there are (and the number depends a great deal on how you name natural hybrids), but there are at least a dozen. Easy to tell when they are in leaf, white oaks have rounded leaf tips, red oaks have pointed leaf tips.

You could spend a lifetime with a GC-MS learning all about this stuff.....

 

[HPMguy]

I can see that. Most of my work has been GC over the years, but I'm certain flavor molecules are not all volatile or semivolatiles, and other things of interest in the plant kingdom certainly are not. All depends on what you are looking for.

I used to maintain a GC-MS with 119 compounds on my calibration for environmental work. What a pain.....

 

[swamppirate]

Scored a bottle of Blanton’s and Buffalo while on vacation....now I need to buy a lottery ticket!

 

[851 SP3]

latest tries. like them all.

 

[whoaru99]

Scored a bottle of Blanton’s and Buffalo while on vacation....now I need to buy a lottery ticket!

I'd agree on the Blanton's. No problem getting BT around here. Well, at least there hasn't been but I've not been bourbon shopping for a couple months.