Highend Tonearm Dimishing returns?

[sony6060]

What is the difference in-between say a Jelco SA-750L and an SME 3012 that is much more expensive? Can one hear the difference?

Diminishing- for some reason I misspelled a word I know how to spell.

 

[BrocLuno]

Maybe, depends on mounting and downstream components ... :scratch2:

 

[fiddlefye]

What is the difference in-between say a Jelco SA-750L and an SME 3012 that is much more expensive? Can one hear the difference?

Diminishing- for some reason I misspelled a word I know how to spell.

That looks like one of my typing errors more than a spelling issue!

I'm not sure just what the difference would end up being between the two arms you're comparing out there in the "real world". Some would certainly depend on the circumstances the arms are placed in I would imagine. It could be that in some applications the less expensive arm might even prove to be a better choice? Having not heard a direct comparison of the two I cannot really comment. I do know that when you get to the upper reaches the choice of design types mushrooms and this along with the quality levels involved could certainly lead to better results if the rest of the system is up to the task.

 

[AudioSoul]

Just comparing arm to arm I think it would come down to effective mass and knife edge in the SME vs. ball bearings in the Jelco.....

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Yes, and also the fact that British labor is more expensive. The Jelco is a fine tonearm but more massive. Both tonearms are superb.

 

[nailer]

Does SME still make the 3012?

In addition to effective mass the 3012 has less tracking error given its significantly longer pivot to HS length.

 

[Blue Shadow]

The Jelco 750L is the long version of their arm so the difference in length is not much.

The SME shows as about 295 mm pivot to spindle and the Jelco shows 290 mm on the tonearm database on VE.

This might come down to which one matches the cartridge better.

 

[nailer]

I stand corrected - didn't even notice the L. Another senior moment.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

SME still manufactures the 3012 R model. It is available in the USA even.

 

[Beobloke]

They don't make the 3012R any more.

They do make the M2-12 which is a straight arm and the M2-12R - this looks very similar to the 3012R but does not have knife-edge bearings.

 

[Ultralyd]

from my point of view, none of the two arms are really high end.

 

[gusten]

from my point of view, none of the two arms are really high end.

Wise men will quibble what is high end.
gusten

 

[gusten]

Wise men don't waste their time quibbling.

Few wise men there are. But some are fast.
gusten

 

[Ultralyd]

Few wise men there are. But some are fast.
gusten

But you are aware that these arms are several decades old?

 

[fiddlefye]

from my point of view, none of the two arms are really high end.

Could we perhaps say "high end, but no longer in the stratosphere"?

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Can we also just say Practical High End. P.S. The current SME 12R tonearm is for all intents a 3012 decendant.

 

[fiddlefye]

Can we also just say Practical High End. P.S. The current SME 12R tonearm is for all intents a 3012 decendant.

Sounds about right to me. These are already not inexpensive arms by most standards and do a very good job at what they were designed for. Can you get better? Sure, but ii seems to me that it would take a combination of a great table, cart and recordings to make it worth the extra. I guess for me that might be where the diminishing return thing starts as the majority of my LPs are never going to be new or mint, just not in the nature of my listening habits.

 

[Mister Pig]

But you are aware that these arms are several decades old?

Age of a tone arm has nothing to do on whether it should be considered high end or not. The Dynavector DV 501 was introduced in 1977, and certainly is a high end arm even today. The Eminent Technology II linear tracking air bearing arm was introduced in 1982, and an updated version in the 2.5 is still in production. The SME type IV and V were realeased in the late 80's, they are a high end arm.

Arms from Technics in the EP 500 and related arms are still considered some of the finer arms out there. Arms from Fidelity Research are sought after and valued for their performance. As are arms from Lustre and Grace. As are arms from Ortofon, SAEC, Syrinx, EMT, and a bunch of others.

I don't know what kind of definition you use to determine what a high end tone arm is, but age should really not be a factor.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[GreatTone]

Don't know about the specific arms under discussion, but my experience is moving to a high-quality arm can make one of the biggest differences in overall system performance.

 

[EWizard]

Are you saying either the Jelco or the SME is not a high-quality arm?