Genesis Physics Speakers:Model II

[Guido57]

Gaskets can be anything thin and/or compressible. Non-drying/curing calk ( I don't recall the common commercial brand names) or very thin weather stripping. Many online stores that sell speaker repair parts will often have something available, though probably more expensive if one plans on doing this more than a few times. (Originally I planed on refurbishing one pair of speakers, but fell down the rabbit hole during the process.)

 

[TSWisla]

Any opinions on these two caps? https://www.parts-express.com/solen-10uf-400v-polypropylene-capacitor--027-568 or https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-pmpc-10-10uf-250v-precision-audio-capacitor--027-244

I can't seem to find a 2 ohm/5 watt resistor. Any ideas where to find one?

 

[Guido57]

with the Daytons you're paying for the 1% tolerance. With the Solens you're paying for the 400v rating and that it's Solen. Why not the Audyn Cap Q4 and save a couple of dollars, they seem to have a good reputation. The resistor doesn't need to be 5 watts, anything 5 watt or greater will do and there should be plenty of room in those speakers to fit a larger resistor.

 

[TSWisla]

Yes, you are right, but I only need 2 so I figure it is not a big deal. I looked up the Audyns and they look nice too, perhaps I will save the money and go with them. Lastly, before I place my order, for internal wiring, will this suffice https://www.parts-express.com/consolidated-stranded-16-awg-hook-up-wire-25-ft-red-ul-rated--101-732 or do I need to hunt down some OFC or simply reuse old wiring? Huw states that he uses OFC in his rebuild kit, but I am having a difficult time even finding 16g OFC. Sincerely appreciate the advice. This is my first rebuild, so I am a little needy. Thank you again.

 

[Nat]

The small amount of wire in the cabinet can't compare in its effects with that of the very long piece of thin wire in the voice coil. And soldering 16 gauge wire presents a challenge - you need enough heat to damage components if you don't use heat sinks and care.
As a selling point for a manufacturer, I have no doubt that the effort replays the cost. For the consumer, I'm dubious. And you can always go back and replace whatever wire you use if later, you decide that you must have super cable in there.

 

[Guido57]

Some say that the length of hookup wire is so short high end wire is not needed, others disagree. The simplest way to get 16 gauge OFC wire is to use speaker wire. https://www.parts-express.com/audtek-16-awg-ofc-speaker-wire-50-ft--100-016
If you want to color code your wires use heat shrink tubing on the ends. I usually just use South Wire hookup wire from Home Despot though I have also used speaker wire. EPI, Advent and many others have very thin wiring from the factory. I'm working on a pair of Klipsch KG 4.5s and their wiring is at most 18 gage. My OLAs internals looked like bell wire.
I've never had a problem soldering 16 gauge but I've had some practice. To acknowledge @Nat's point there I've read some manufacturers recommend using connectors at the speaker to avoid damaging the leads there.

 

[Nat]

My experience is that with heavy gauge wire, much depends on your soldering iron, and the small pencil irons that work well with circuit boards and the like require way too long a dwell time to be safe - something as crude as a soldering gun is a better idea.
This is especially true as Guido57 notes, with the connectors on the drivers - the tinsel leads don't seem to solder very securely, and if you heat up the other end of the tab too much, soldering on the hookup wires, the tinsel may decide to part ways with the tab.

 

[TSWisla]

So would you recommend thinner wire or careful soldering of 16g or leave the stock?

 

[Nat]

I'd probably just use the old wires, but that's me. While my feeling is that the results of using fancy wire are negligible sonically but somewhat a pain in terms of installation and routing, part of feeling it doesn't matter much is also feeling that using fancy stuff won't hurt.

 

[Guido57]

If you haven't done much soldering it won't hurt to stick with the stock wire. You could look for some 18 gauge OFC speaker wire but sometimes one needs to stop chasing hard to find parts and get on with the job. In practice I've seen a lot of wire nuts in speakers.

 

[Nat]

It's always good to keep in mind that audio equipment is actually just a bunch of appliances. Perhaps used for a higher purpose (though if cleanliness is next to godliness, the washer and dishwasher may also lay such a claim). You get no moral or spiritual points for doing things one way or the other - if the result sounds good, that is the goal. Maybe at some point you'll think it could sound better, at which point you can see - it may, or it may not.
I've been around long enough that I've seen Romex (which, if you aren't into home maintenance is solid core house wire) touted for speaker cable, solder as wire(!) for short interconnects (I hate to think of the aguments over solid core vs rosin core, and if the latter, which formulation of both solder and rosin), little stands to lift speaker wire off the floor, and so on and so forth.
I'm not against experimenting, and some wires actually do justify some extra expense - I was a fairly early and enthusiastic buyer of the Polk Cobra Cable (which I think were also sold by Fulton and were the first commercially available and successful super wire). They really made a noticeable difference with a Pioneer SA 9500 and Fried Qs. Of course, they cost only $34.95 with a money back guarantee, so trying was painless, unlike nowadays. (And it is worth noting that by the time I bought mine the little network had been added to the speaker end of the cable to keep it from blowing amps - I think Naims were the primary victims. But if you want proof that speaker wire can make a difference, blowing up amps seems sufficient to me...)

 

[ClarkG]

Hey all, I'm a new member to this forum and this thread has been incredibly helpful in restoring my dad's old Genesis Model II's. I've attached some pictures of the process bellow. Basically, my dad got these as a graduation present in 1979, along with a Sony PS-T1 turntable and a Pioneer SX-780 receiver. By the time I came along they were just sitting next to the tv stand in our living room basically acting as end tables. When I was about 10 my older brother and I started to get into music, so my dad broke out his old system (Without the Pioneer, unfortunately that thing was lost to a garage sale at some point) and played us some of his old records.

Fast forward to early this year and I noticed these speakers sitting in my brothers garage being used as sawhorses(!!) They were in terrible shape, so I decided to try my hand at bringing them back to life.

I stripped off all of the vinyl finish using a heat gun, filled and sanded all the gouges in the MDF, and veneered them in oak. I then re-foamed the 8" woofers and the 10" passives.

After that I replaced the old caps with new ones that were suggested on this thread, and replaced the binding posts in the back. I left the rest of the crossover the way I had found it.

These things sound absolutely great now. I have them paired to a Pioneer SA-8500 and a Technics SL-1900 (not pictured). I couldn't be happier with how they've turned out. I'm currently switching between these and a pair of JBL L-88s, and I can't decide which I like more.

I'm planning on gifting these back to my dad in a week or so along with his original turntable (which I still have), and a Pioneer SX-750 which I have cleaned up, replaced the bulbs, and refinished in the same oak to match the speakers.

 

[ClarkG]

More Pictures of the build.

 

[Guido57]

Great work! Nice that you could find a replacement SX-750, though at this point in time it could probably also use a recapping.

 

[ClarkG]

I haven't attempted a full recap of a receiver yet, and I'm not that confident in my soldering skills. However I did have it gone through at a reputable shop in town, and they told me everything checked out. They said they wouldn't recommend a recap All I did was blow out the dust, clean the pots, and replace all the bulbs. Also had to replace the tuning weight assembly as it had sheared in half, but it all works smoothly now.

 

[Guido57]

Mentioned it because a friend of mine had his 1976 Pioneer receiver in for rebuilding twice, though I admit to not knowing the full extent of the work. I hear you about the soldering, there's so much packed into most receivers they are a pain to work on. I only go in if there's nothing to loose, while I have no qualms about about going into my Adcom 535.

 

[ClarkG]

I'll definitely attempt it at some point, just need to practice up before a go to crazy on something with any real value. I will say that the guy I brought this and my SA-8500 to in KC said he doesn't generally recommend full on recaps. In his opinion it takes away from the vintage sound, and the components they had back then were actually pretty high quality. I'm sure if you asked 100 different people you would get 100 different answers on what the best way to go is.

 

[pumablues]

@ClarkG , AMAZING work! I had posted earlier in this thread, very excited about my speakers...and then completely stalled out after I mostly completed the first speaker. You've really inspired me to get my **** in order

 

[KENWOOD RULZ]

Hi All,
I just joined a few days ago. I've been lurking this Fantastic forum for ages as I've always tinkered with electronics, refoamed speakers and such for many moons now, you guys ROCK. I appreciate the EXTRA knowledge I am able to gain here. I have 3 pairs of Genesis Physics speakers, 1 set of Genesis Physics G10's and 2 sets of the Model 2's, the early ones with the masonite tweeters. They've all been refoamed, my original 1980-81 ? G10's twice now since they've been used basically not stop since I bought them new in High School along with a Kenwood KR-720 which I toasted after running it way too loud for way too long while working outside on cars, it just shut off, fried. Anyway, I just picked up a what looks to me an NOS Realistic STA-225 and hooked it up tonight. NOW my Model 2's can't handle the Bass and the 8" woofer and the Passive radiator start shaking & over-extending way too fast at higher volumes, I do like to crank it up. I think it's this receiver, which looks brand new in and out. I think the STA-225 is a very "Bassy" unit. I cut back on the Bass, below midline and that went away. I guess the speakers can't handle the power. This is the 1st time I've seen these Model 2's clip like this and I was somewhat stunned, like what the hell is going on. Also, I think mine are ready for a recap (all 4 of the model 2"s) I seem to be losing treble from the concave dome tweeters on 3 of them, but the 4th one sings like new. My Question to all of you is: COULD rebuilding the crossovers take care of the tweeters sounding "low" ?? I pulled each tweeter out and tested them all individually tonight with an OHM meter and all 4 of them read between 5.2 to 5.9 OHMS, so I'm assuming they're ok otherwise. I know I should have put a "low sounding" tweeter into the one speaker that the tweeter sounded great... Thanks much for a reply.

 

[RTally]

Also, I think mine are ready for a recap (all 4 of the model 2"s) I seem to be losing treble from the concave dome tweeters on 3 of them, but the 4th one sings like new. My Question to all of you is: COULD rebuilding the crossovers take care of the tweeters sounding "low" ?? I pulled each tweeter out and tested them all individually tonight with an OHM meter and all 4 of them read between 5.2 to 5.9 OHMS, so I'm assuming they're ok otherwise. I know I should have put a "low sounding" tweeter into the one speaker that the tweeter sounded great... Thanks much for a reply.

Yes, recapping the Genesis II will improve the high end. Those caps are old and no longer working as designed. When caps are really bad, the speakers sound muffled, like a blanket is thrown over them.

I replaced my caps with Audyn 10 uF film caps from Parts Express. I needed two per speaker. I suggest inspecting your crossover to verify the value of caps being used. Use the same uF or mfd value. You can use a cap with a higher voltage rating with no problem.