Frank_Black
Active Member
Nah, mine are dark and they're wood veneer. I'm guessing they probably made some with different types of veneer.
Genesis Physics Speakers:Model II
- Thread starter moggi1964
- Start date
sven
Tilting At Gin Mills
They did. I have a pair of 10's with oak veneer.
HepcatWilly
Just trying to be Hepful
My 3's are oak veneer and really nice. My II's are vinyl and they ooze and stick.
Yours, cube-tube, are beautiful
Yours, cube-tube, are beautiful
Frank_Black
Active Member
That's interesting to me, because I didn't even know they made vinyl ones.
I'm still looking for a mate to my single V6. I get the feeling the Pacific northwest wasn't exactly a hotspot for Genesis. . . . .
I'm still looking for a mate to my single V6. I get the feeling the Pacific northwest wasn't exactly a hotspot for Genesis. . . . .
cube-tube
Super Member
Thank you kind sir! Yeah, whoever had them before took really good care of them and I plan on doing the same, even more so with the upgrades I plan on doing to them soon.
cube-tube
Super Member
So I'm about to put in an order with PE for the crossover components, ALL 2 of them! LOL
I'm glad to see that Genesis used air core inductors and I would reuse them if I could, but they are so heavily glued onto the terminal board, it's going to be impossible to get them off without breaking them. Not only that, but I would rather just keep the original terminal board and crossover intact just because.
Now for the question...
It says in the schematic that these inductors are 0.47mH and wound with 22awg wire. Would there be any harm in going with larger 15awg inductors? Since these are on the tweeters, would I benefit from moving up to the foil inductors over the standard 15awg wire inductors? They're only a few bucks more.
As a side note, I'm not going to be incorporating the attenuation switch for the tweeter. With the somewhat plush furnishings, cat tree and carpet in our apartment, the tweeters sound just fine wide open. Then again, I can't tell any difference when I flip the switch either.
One last thing, and this may come a little later down the road, but I was thinking of possibly upgrading to the new aluminum tweeter, but only if there's a real improvement over the 30 year old original phenolic tweeters. Any thoughts on this one?
Many thanks in advance!
Here's an inside pic as well as a quick system pic, both taken by my iPhone and uploaded to my PC automatically via iCloud. A very awesome app I must say! Anywho...
If you look closely, you can see tubes a glowin!
I'm glad to see that Genesis used air core inductors and I would reuse them if I could, but they are so heavily glued onto the terminal board, it's going to be impossible to get them off without breaking them. Not only that, but I would rather just keep the original terminal board and crossover intact just because.
Now for the question...
It says in the schematic that these inductors are 0.47mH and wound with 22awg wire. Would there be any harm in going with larger 15awg inductors? Since these are on the tweeters, would I benefit from moving up to the foil inductors over the standard 15awg wire inductors? They're only a few bucks more.
As a side note, I'm not going to be incorporating the attenuation switch for the tweeter. With the somewhat plush furnishings, cat tree and carpet in our apartment, the tweeters sound just fine wide open. Then again, I can't tell any difference when I flip the switch either.
One last thing, and this may come a little later down the road, but I was thinking of possibly upgrading to the new aluminum tweeter, but only if there's a real improvement over the 30 year old original phenolic tweeters. Any thoughts on this one?
Many thanks in advance!
Here's an inside pic as well as a quick system pic, both taken by my iPhone and uploaded to my PC automatically via iCloud. A very awesome app I must say! Anywho...
If you look closely, you can see tubes a glowin!
EPI-Center
Super Member
I just reveneered some vinyl II's which are now wood II's, will have pics up soon
dlmoore2740
New Member
I have some Model 10's in vinyl and they were sticky until a a few applications of armor-all.
Boto
Curmudgeon In Training
I feel your pain on the glued in crossover parts. I have a pair of ESS speakers that I wanted to re-cap and change the connectors to binding posts. There is so much glue on everything that I have to build a new one. For a 2-way system there are 2 caps, 2 coils and a power resistor. It's getting a bit pricey.
Anyway, I'm a Mech E, not an EE so I only have basic electrical knowledge. The gauge of the wire shouldn't matter as long as the end result is a coil of the same impedance. I'm sure there will be some discussion as to which is more sonically pleasing, but the circuit itself shouldn't care as long as you match the impedance.
Anyway, I'm a Mech E, not an EE so I only have basic electrical knowledge. The gauge of the wire shouldn't matter as long as the end result is a coil of the same impedance. I'm sure there will be some discussion as to which is more sonically pleasing, but the circuit itself shouldn't care as long as you match the impedance.
Cube tube, if you go with a heavier gauge inductor, the DC resistance will probably be a bit lower, which is good, but the original crossover was designed with the DCR it has. Changing it will make slight changes to crossover point and tweeter level. Quite likely not audible. Power across this inductor is very low, so I doubt you will see any advantage to using a very expensive one, but I think whatever you like will work fine. I kept the original inductors in my pair.
As for the tweeter, I think the original is just great. I mean really, it's great. Huw claims that his is a slight upgrade. I believe it goes a little higher, but I am skeptical that it's an upgrade. Until I hear one, or at least until someone proves there isn't more ringing/resonance than the original, I'm not interested.
As for the tweeter, I think the original is just great. I mean really, it's great. Huw claims that his is a slight upgrade. I believe it goes a little higher, but I am skeptical that it's an upgrade. Until I hear one, or at least until someone proves there isn't more ringing/resonance than the original, I'm not interested.
cube-tube
Super Member
I realize the impedance needs to be the same in the end. I was just wondering if going with a lower DCR is going to adversely effect anything. As far as going with the foil inductors, I'm just curious if there's any improvement over the wire versions for tweeter use.
With lower DCR, if the crossover point and tweeter level changes, which way would those changes probably go? Lower or higher crossover point? I imagine the tweeter level would increase slightly.
Concerning the new "upgraded" tweeters, I'm not completely sold on them unless I read some compelling reviews of them compared to the originals. The original tweeters sound great if just a tad bit reserved in the extreme top end. Normally, I would blame that on the 6L6 tube amp I'm using, but I know for a fact that this amp has plenty of "zip" up there. Maybe it's the old tired caps in the crossovers causing this or it's just the way these tweeters are. I guess I'll find out once I recap and "re-induct" the crossovers. LOL
cube-tube
Super Member
I put in the order at PE for my goodies. I went a little overboard but figured I'd try something different.
The normal part of the order:
2) Dayton Audio SBPP-SI Binding Post Plate Silver Anodized
2) Dayton Audio BPP-NI Premium Binding Post Pair Nickel
2) Jantzen 0.47mH 18 AWG Air Core Inductors
The "experimental" part of the order:
2) Dayton PMPC-6.8 6.8uF 250V Precision Audio Capacitors
2) Jantzen 2.2uF 400V Z-Standard Capacitors
2) Jantzen 1.0uF 800V Z-Superior Capacitors
Yes, I am going to do the controversial act of building a "Cascade Bypass" using three smaller value caps to create the 10uF needed, such as what North Creek Music talks about on their site.
Will it be a waste of money and time? Maybe, maybe not. If it works out for the better, I'll be very happy. If it doesn't, I'll just buy some 10uF caps and be done with it and use these caps elsewhere. It's only a little bit more than what I would have spent on just the two 10uF caps alone.
Gonna go put my flame retardant suit on now.
The normal part of the order:
2) Dayton Audio SBPP-SI Binding Post Plate Silver Anodized
2) Dayton Audio BPP-NI Premium Binding Post Pair Nickel
2) Jantzen 0.47mH 18 AWG Air Core Inductors
The "experimental" part of the order:
2) Dayton PMPC-6.8 6.8uF 250V Precision Audio Capacitors
2) Jantzen 2.2uF 400V Z-Standard Capacitors
2) Jantzen 1.0uF 800V Z-Superior Capacitors
Yes, I am going to do the controversial act of building a "Cascade Bypass" using three smaller value caps to create the 10uF needed, such as what North Creek Music talks about on their site.
Will it be a waste of money and time? Maybe, maybe not. If it works out for the better, I'll be very happy. If it doesn't, I'll just buy some 10uF caps and be done with it and use these caps elsewhere. It's only a little bit more than what I would have spent on just the two 10uF caps alone.
Gonna go put my flame retardant suit on now.
Meh, nothing wrong with a little experiment. Keep your leads short as possible on all those caps. If you want to get semi-serious on the test, build it so you can A/B the two crossovers with the two speakers (in mono of course), and then swap crossovers between speakers and do it again, and then swap speaker locations and do both comparisons again. IMO, effects of extra inductance and/or resistance from the multiple components would be more likely audible than anything else, but whatever sounds better sounds better (if anything sounds better), and "MO" is not worth a lot on such hair-splitting technical issues.
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cube-tube
Super Member
Well I got one of the speakers done, the right one. I've had it playing now for the past 30 minutes or so while I've been uploading the pics and eating my dinner.
As far as I can tell already, it has a little punchier, tighter bass impact, and this speaker has no wall corner to help it. That of course has to be due to the new 16awg wire I'm using. The upper mids and treble are definitely "airier" and still smooth. I think I've read somewhere that those two different Jantzen caps I'm using take a couple weeks or so to finally settle down. So it'll be interesting to see how they sound a month down the road.
I'm about to shut the system down to pull the left speaker apart and overhaul it. It'll go much quicker since I know what to do now, and the crossover is already assembled.
I'll write more later, but here's a few "teaser" pics to get ya by...
As far as I can tell already, it has a little punchier, tighter bass impact, and this speaker has no wall corner to help it. That of course has to be due to the new 16awg wire I'm using. The upper mids and treble are definitely "airier" and still smooth. I think I've read somewhere that those two different Jantzen caps I'm using take a couple weeks or so to finally settle down. So it'll be interesting to see how they sound a month down the road.
I'm about to shut the system down to pull the left speaker apart and overhaul it. It'll go much quicker since I know what to do now, and the crossover is already assembled.
I'll write more later, but here's a few "teaser" pics to get ya by...
cube-tube
Super Member
Anywho...
Got the other speaker done. While in there I noticed that the passive radiator is slightly different from the other one, or at least the basket is. Also, the crossover is different, using two 5uF electrolytics instead of the one 10uF poly cap like in the other one. The 2 ohm resister is different as well.
On with the pics of the final product(s)...
Duct Seal is great stuff!
Got the other speaker done. While in there I noticed that the passive radiator is slightly different from the other one, or at least the basket is. Also, the crossover is different, using two 5uF electrolytics instead of the one 10uF poly cap like in the other one. The 2 ohm resister is different as well.
On with the pics of the final product(s)...
Duct Seal is great stuff!
