simplynuts
Super Member
How much do you need to replace the ferrofluid in each t33 tweeter , two tubes? Do I need a syringe or can it come directly from tube?
KEF owners thread
- Thread starter matteos
- Start date
Lou G
Super Member
You only need one 100ul tube for each tweeter. It doesn't take much. You do not need a syringe. Just cut off a little section of the tube and squeeze it over the gap. The magnet will actually suck the ferrofluid into the gap. It is quite easy. Just make sure you clean out the old dry ferrofluid before using the new ferrofluid.
JohnnyNapalm
Active Member
Ah yes, a fellow fanatic
I'm kind of on the fence, as the Model Three's are already doing an awesome job. Dammit, decisions decisions.....
I know what you mean. I had lived with my 3.2’s as mains for at least 15 years but enjoy the 4.2’s even more. The sound is fuller if that makes sense. Cheers.
simplynuts
Super Member
When do you know it is full? just to edge of gap? Alcohol qtips and thin sheets of cardboard to clean out? Should I be nervous that I might screw them up? I have repaired the fine wires on tweeter voice coils. I can assume last person didn't replace fluid? No way of checking if it was done?
Lou G
Super Member
The 100ul tubes are are exactly the right amount to use for one tweeter. One tube will fill the gap right to the top. I believe the ferrofluid from Parts Express includes little strips of blotter paper for cleaning the old ferrofluid. You can also use index cards or other suitable blotter paper. Just keep blotting out the old ferrofluid until the paper looks clean. You can use a q-tip with some isopropyl alcohol to clean the voice coil and areas outside of the gap. Just be careful cleaning the voice coil. There are several videos online that you should watch.
simplynuts
Super Member
Thanks. Probably will give it a shot. Bought these for a good price. Some water damage to bottom and part way up on one cabinet. It didn't have rubber feet on the bottom of that speaker. Corner separated slightly, but a cleaned it up nicely. Didn't warp wood or penetrate inside. Speakers look and sound good. Person was second owner and his sister was selling it for him.
simplynuts
Super Member
How does the c80 compare in sound to the reference series?
SaSi
Seriously Illogical
I don't have the C80s but do have and use pairs of Calinda and Carlton III, and also Reference 104ab. All these use similar or identical drivers and all are passive radiator loaded with one being a reference series.
All sound pretty good. Drift in capacitors on the crossover simply destroy the performance so the drivers are all pretty much close in performance.
The C80 benefits from being three way with a hefty woofer, compared to the 8" of the ones I mentioned above. It should give almost an octave more bass extension and better overall performance.
Comparing the three different models above with a Reference 105, the latter is much more substantial in overall performance, soundstage and clean sound at higher volumes. Not much, but enough to be noticed.
Comparing the R105 with a R107, it's almost night and day (or at least dusk and day...). The R107 has exceptionally deeper bass and can play that loud and undistorted without any hint of being close to excursion limits for the woofers. To the point the R107 replaced my R107 (that I loved) from the main system.
In terms of specs, the C80 are about in the same performance class as the R105, in terms of power handling, frequency response and max SPL. Not the same tolerances as a reference series speaker so it might have more prominent dips and peaks in the frequency response, but after all these years, such differences diminish.
The C80 would benefit from a powerful amplifier. The spec sheet calls for max 300W @ 4Ohms and you can benefit from a powerful amplifier in that you will be listening at your normal playback levels but peaks would not get compressed and clipped by the amplifier. 4Ohm speakers draw twice as much current from the amplifier and consumer amplifiers tend to be a bit short in current.
I was pleased with the R107 using a 2x90WPC power amplifier but now I'm excited having a powerful 2x450WPC dbx power amplifier driving them. The sound simply isn't the same and it's not the loudspeakers that changed.
All sound pretty good. Drift in capacitors on the crossover simply destroy the performance so the drivers are all pretty much close in performance.
The C80 benefits from being three way with a hefty woofer, compared to the 8" of the ones I mentioned above. It should give almost an octave more bass extension and better overall performance.
Comparing the three different models above with a Reference 105, the latter is much more substantial in overall performance, soundstage and clean sound at higher volumes. Not much, but enough to be noticed.
Comparing the R105 with a R107, it's almost night and day (or at least dusk and day...). The R107 has exceptionally deeper bass and can play that loud and undistorted without any hint of being close to excursion limits for the woofers. To the point the R107 replaced my R107 (that I loved) from the main system.
In terms of specs, the C80 are about in the same performance class as the R105, in terms of power handling, frequency response and max SPL. Not the same tolerances as a reference series speaker so it might have more prominent dips and peaks in the frequency response, but after all these years, such differences diminish.
The C80 would benefit from a powerful amplifier. The spec sheet calls for max 300W @ 4Ohms and you can benefit from a powerful amplifier in that you will be listening at your normal playback levels but peaks would not get compressed and clipped by the amplifier. 4Ohm speakers draw twice as much current from the amplifier and consumer amplifiers tend to be a bit short in current.
I was pleased with the R107 using a 2x90WPC power amplifier but now I'm excited having a powerful 2x450WPC dbx power amplifier driving them. The sound simply isn't the same and it's not the loudspeakers that changed.
simplynuts
Super Member
I didn't know dbx made amps. I have a b and k components ex442 that needs repair. Plays clean, but has low volume. 200 watts per channel. maybe good match. Unfortunately sold a pioneer sx1250 that would have worked well with these.
Put this elsewhere, but does anyone have thoughts on the KEF Q50 and Q70 speakers. I've been looking, but didn't find much on the board.
I have a chance to pick them up pretty cheaply for one as a second set to run in my living room and one as a switch/backup set, but given the age I'm thinking they'll need to be refoamed at some point pretty soon.
I also have the KEF 103/4's. Will these be too disappointing in comparison the the Reference series?
Only thing is it's an hour drive to go listen to them, so want to make sure I should go ahead before making the trip. thanks in advance!
I have a chance to pick them up pretty cheaply for one as a second set to run in my living room and one as a switch/backup set, but given the age I'm thinking they'll need to be refoamed at some point pretty soon.
I also have the KEF 103/4's. Will these be too disappointing in comparison the the Reference series?
Only thing is it's an hour drive to go listen to them, so want to make sure I should go ahead before making the trip. thanks in advance!
I had the same problem with a B&K EX4420. Replacing the caps on the output boards fixed it. Using it (with a Schiit Saga) to drive a pair of 104/2's.
BTW, the B&K sounds much better that my, soon to be sold (already promised to someone here), SX-1250. Get the B&K fixed. You won't regret it.
simplynuts
Super Member
I had a pair of q90s that I sold only because I was using with a home theater that was made up of polk audio and now they are all polk audio. Great stereo speakers though. Never an issue.
simplynuts
Super Member
I have schematic for the ex442. The four pots on the boards need replacing, but havent got around to do it. Are these the big caps that the boards are bolted to?I had the same problem with a B&K EX4420. Replacing the caps on the output boards fixed it. Using it (with a Schiit Saga) to drive a pair of 104/2's.
BTW, the B&K sounds much better that my, soon to be sold (already promised to someone here), SX-1250. Get the B&K fixed. You won't regret it.
Thanks! I'm pretty tempted to pick them both up if they are in good shape. I don't have much in between my main big speakers and a bunch of bookshelf speakers, so this could give me some flexibility and some really nice speakers as well.
No. The big caps are probably fine, although you could replace them if you wanted. It was the smaller caps that were replaced on mine. I'd do those first and see how it sounds. If good, then I wouldn't bother with the large filter caps. I had a shop do mine, and got the old parts back. Didn't have the time, nor the inclination, to troubleshoot and do it myself.
mccarty350
Super Member
Buanadha, one thing I'd investigate is the failure rate of the older Q drivers. After speaking to Onwardjames on the topic over the weekend he mentioned that their failure rate is really high due to aging ferrofluid and that maybe he considered this 'inevitable'. I don't want to plant a false fear - just something to investigate before proceeding on the Q series. Also you said you have 103/4's...I thought they were part of the reference series themselves? Never heard a pair but when I looked them up they appeared on KEF's site to be part of the reference series.
That's pretty much my fear. I can deal with swapping the ferrofluid out, but it would be tough to have to find a replacement for the Q driver if it went out (and was inevitable to go out).
I have 2 sets of the 103/4's. One is in the shop now being refoamed and refurbed, and I'm running one set with my main system in the basement. I have some old C40's with my living room now and I love them (they've been with me a long time!), but they just aren't the 103/4's and I'd like something a bit closer to the quality of the 103/4's, but not that I care about quite as much out in the living room - and sometimes I just like switching things up with different speakers
Anyway, the price is right for these. I love the KEF sound, but I'm a bit worried about extra headaches also!
mccarty350
Super Member
So you heard the same regarding those tweeters, what I heard wasn't an uncommon statement? That's a disappointment, I've never heard them, do you like them? I've listened to a lot of KEF but almost all of it has been vintage with the exception of the LS50 so I missed all of that innovation and progression in that interim period of what....30-40 years? 
Yeah I get it, it's like every KEF from the era of ferrofluid and beyond is frought with crazy sh*t to correct and design eccentricities. But they sound so damn good it's hard to avoid.
KEF 103/2? Woofer sag.
KEF 105? Woofer sag.
104/2? Tough refoams, ticking timebomb ferrofluid tweeters, ticking time bomb KUBE
KEF 107? Tough refoams, ticking timebomb ferrofluid tweeters, ticking time bomb KUBE
They are like the german car of speakers. Perform stellar when working, horrific when broken. I will advise that if you like the sound of KEF you'd also likely like the sound of IMF and Fried products. Cut from the same cloth. Fried was my gateway drug to KEF and IMF.
Yeah I get it, it's like every KEF from the era of ferrofluid and beyond is frought with crazy sh*t to correct and design eccentricities. But they sound so damn good it's hard to avoid.
KEF 103/2? Woofer sag.
KEF 105? Woofer sag.
104/2? Tough refoams, ticking timebomb ferrofluid tweeters, ticking time bomb KUBE
KEF 107? Tough refoams, ticking timebomb ferrofluid tweeters, ticking time bomb KUBE
They are like the german car of speakers. Perform stellar when working, horrific when broken. I will advise that if you like the sound of KEF you'd also likely like the sound of IMF and Fried products. Cut from the same cloth. Fried was my gateway drug to KEF and IMF.
