Speakers vs. Amplifier (Poll Included)

[DaveVoorhis]

How poor is "poor" here?

Are we talking cheap-transistor-radio levels of poor?

Or bought-at-a-box-store, not-my-usual-high-end-retailer poor?

 

[theophile]

Would you rather have a system with decent speakers and a poor amplifier, or a system with poor speakers and a decent amplifier?

I'd actually rather that someone else had those types of systems. If I had my rathers that is.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Perhaps head over to most any tube forum and mention to the set owners that they really should upgrade their flea powered distortion laden amps they're using on their Tannoys, Avantgarde, or Klipsch speakers

Power output and SQ really have nothing to do with each other.

 

[Andyman]

Good speakers.
I notice differences more between speakers than I do amps or sources.
But I would change the choices here to good and great, rather than poor and decent, as the latter imply mediocrity at best.

 

[DavidZak]

As worded, I tend to agree with those who say neither will sound good. An okay amp with great speakers will sound better than a great amp with okay speakers.

IMO of course.

I Totally agree.

 

[motorstereo]

Power output and SQ really have nothing to do with each other.

Correct; but higher than normal distortion coupled with low power is an indication of a low quality amp; correct?

 

[savatage1973]

"Most" amps (regardless of how crappy) can generally put out a watt or two without reaching "crisis mode" and really show their "true colors". Lousy speakers tend to just sound lousy from the git-go.

I agree that neither scenario is for me, but given the choice, I'll still pick speakers over amp.

Another factor is that it is (IME) far more difficult to find a pair of speakers that "work" in your environment than it is to find a decent/good amp to work with your speakers.

 

[savatage1973]

Correct; but higher than normal distortion coupled with low power is an indication of a low quality amp; correct?

Not in my book. 1% or greater distortion is not uncommon in tube amplifiers, and the harmonics of the distortion are what gives them their desireable "character". You can build a 1000 wpc SS amp for a few bucks out of a pile of cheap components and still achieve some pretty impressive specs, or you can spend thousands of dollars to build a 10 wpc tube amp that is built like a "brick sh*t-house".

"Quality" is a relative term.

 

[motorstereo]

Not in my book. 1% or greater distortion is not uncommon in tube amplifiers, and the harmonics of the distortion are what gives them their desireable "character". You can build a 1000 wpc SS amp for a few bucks out of a pile of cheap components and still achieve some pretty impressive specs, or you can spend thousands of dollars to build a 10 wpc tube amp that is built like a "brick sh*t-house".

"Quality" is a relative term.

Ok then would you consider a lowly Chifi t amp crappy? If not how about a vintage Harmon Kardon 330? Either one of those units aren't high quality by a long shot in my book but paired up with khorns they are very nice sounding combinations. As with most things in things in this hobby there are plenty of exceptions "in my book".

 

[savatage1973]

Ok then would you consider a lowly Chifi t amp crappy? If not how about a vintage Harmon Kardon 330? Either one of those units aren't high quality by a long shot in my book but paired up with khorns they are very nice sounding combinations. As with most things in things in this hobby there are plenty of exceptions "in my book".

Certainly are a lot of exceptions in this hobby--I'll agree to that. The HK's are still here and running/repairable--where will the T-amps be in 10-20 years?

 

[motorstereo]

Certainly are a lot of exceptions in this hobby--I'll agree to that. The HK's are still here and running/repairable--where will the T-amps be in 10-20 years?

Who really cares where'll they'll be in 20 years or even 5 years? So in essence you're calling those t amps junk? My point is that those junk amps can and will make khorns sing. Crappy amps paired with quality speakers can and do make some fine music.

 

[savatage1973]

Crappy amps paired with quality speakers can and do make some fine music.

Funny--if you read all of my posts to this thread, that is basically what I stated (several times). Speakers first, amps second--actually to clarify my "absolute" position--speakers first, sources/preamps second, and amps third.

It is more difficult to find speakers that "work" in any given room--much easier to improve upon the other two.

 

[SterlingOne]

Great amps are out there today for peanuts, as well as speakers. This is our reward from electronics manufacturers competing for multi-channel home theater market share. In other words, the poll question is as null as it is moot, since extreme mismatching of speakers and amplification is not possible without effort from what's out there today.

 

[motorstereo]

OTOH, it takes a really crappy amp to make good speakers sound truly horrible.

Define crappy please. Enough to make those khorns sound "truly horrible". I'm thinking perhaps a child's first Kenner stereo might do the trick; something that no one here would own in the first place.

 

[mashaffer]

Correct; but higher than normal distortion coupled with low power is an indication of a low quality amp; correct?

No. The TDH spec is very close to meaningless. It is generally given only at one output power, has no intication of spectrum, and does not give any indication of the distortions that are not harmonically related (which are more painful).

You might be able to estimate the level of feedback used but not quality.

 

[johnda]

I looked at the survey and chose not to pick. There is no reason to choose either answer these days with the wonderful selection of good sounding inexpensive gear.

 

[motorstereo]

No. The TDH spec is very close to meaningless. It is generally given only at one output power, has no intication of spectrum, and does not give any indication of the distortions that are not harmonically related (which are more painful).

You might be able to estimate the level of feedback used but not quality.

That isn't my point at all. The worst amp I can come up with so far is a t amp or a high distortion set amp. Perhaps you have a better example that is somewhat common?

 

[just dave]

Speakers make the biggest difference in sound quality because they're transducers,so definitely better speakers.

 

[mashaffer]

That isn't my point at all. The worst amp I can come up with so far is a t amp or a high distortion set amp. Perhaps you have a better example that is somewhat common?

I think I see where you are coming from and if so we are probably close to the same page. Where I differ is Ibwould say rather the worst __measuring__ amps... I have no way to measure it but my guess is that my SEUL KT88 measures worse on THD (at full output esp) than most any amps I have ever owned yet it sounds stellar IMO. A lot of folks seems to feel the same about class D.

I have taken el cheapo all in one solid state units (the kind with built in 8-track players) and improved them greatly by hooking up a decent set of speakers.

Some such lash ups didn't sound half bad. I think in part due to the fact that they had no pretensions of high end so they didn't throw in gobs of feedback to get impressive numbers. Just simple discrete circuits with enough feedback to make them listenable. Probably the biggest limitation was bandwidth.

Something we sometimes forget too is that when it comes to HD speakers (especially cheapish ones) produce significantly more than just about any amp that is functioning up to spec.

 

[tom67]

Yeah, you need to define the word "poor".....allow me to substitute the term "entry level". In fact, you are more likely to confront entry level than "poor". With an entry level amp like the attached and a sub $150 (street price) pair of speakers, I would opt to change speakers. However, such a system would most likely be better that what you would find in the vast majority of households and my guess is that less than 5% would feel the need to replace anything.

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